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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80701: Feb 18th 2018 at 7:39:09 PM

It didn't gross a lot more than Vol 1 despite having a larger opening weekend:

Vol 1: 94 mil opening, 333 mil domestic gross

Vol 2: 146 mil opening, 389 mil domestic gross

If you prefer another comparison, Homecoming opened with $117 million but had about the same final domestic gross as GOTG Vol. 1.

But even if Black Panther had relatively large drop-offs in later weeks, it would still pass $400 mil domestic, and earn more than any MCU film except the two Avengers movies. Given the excellent critical and audience reception, I think we can expect it to do considerably better than that.

edited 18th Feb '18 7:47:12 PM by Galadriel

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80702: Feb 18th 2018 at 8:38:12 PM

It didn't gross less, either.

Vol 1: 94 mil opening, 333 mil domestic gross

Vol 2: 146 mil opening, 389 mil domestic gross

  • 333-94=239
  • 389-146=243

Explain to me again how Guardians 2's domestic gross shamefully dropped off after the first weekend and it stopped making any money in the weeks that followed.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80703: Feb 18th 2018 at 8:54:04 PM

...no one said that.

The opening weekend made up 37.5% of GOTG Vol 2's final gross, which means it had very respectable audience retention. Opening weekend made up 28% of GOTG Vol 1's final gross, meaning it had amazing audience retention.

The statement was that GOTG's retention was better than GOTG's (due to GOTG being more of an unknown quantity that really caught on with people, while Vol 2 had more hype), meaning that GOTG didn't gain as much as one might expect from having an higher opening weekend gross.

And that, in the same way, we don't know how well Black Panther will hold up in the following weeks. But given the positive reception, the good reviews the lack of any major competition...I'm expecting it to hold up well.

AOU had fairly poor audience retention (fitting with its middling reviews and middling fan reception) and still made $459 million; even if BP only matched that, it would be an amazing gross for a solo superhero film. If BP has good audience retention, there's no telling how high it could go

edited 18th Feb '18 9:13:04 PM by Galadriel

123tbones Since: Aug, 2015
#80704: Feb 18th 2018 at 9:34:10 PM

[up] You forget that Civil War's opening was 179 million which is 43.9% of it's total gross. That's a bigger percent than AOU by 2%, yet many saw it as one of Marvel's best films. So who knows how well Black Panther will hold up.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#80705: Feb 19th 2018 at 12:38:25 AM

SUN for Black Panther finishing up well ahead of what #Disney estimated. $60M neighborhood, about $10M better than what studio thought. Now looking at around $200M+ 3day debut, 4day holiday launch of $230M+. Stunning.[1]

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80706: Feb 19th 2018 at 2:41:09 AM

The point here is that most Marvel movies gross the most in the first two weekends except for the new "Smaller" properties like Got G. Black Panther has gathered so much interest that a lot of watching will happen early on. Though it is possible that there are enough rewatches to give it staying power.

IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#80707: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:32:12 AM

I want Black Panther to make at least $1,214,811,253 (USD) worldwide. BTW, that number was not picked at random.

edited 19th Feb '18 5:32:38 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#80709: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:36:37 AM

[up]Yes

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#80710: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:40:06 AM

Whenever someone bring up "Superhero fatigue", I'll just bring up these numbers and laugh my ass off.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80711: Feb 19th 2018 at 5:41:10 AM

Well, BP certainly deserves to make more. I don't hate IM 3, but it was pretty thoroughly mediocre. It had the advantage of riding the wave of popularity from Avengers, though.

If the numbers on the previous page are correct, BP will make about as much in its 4-day opening weekend as Doctor Strange did in its entire run. Which is rather satisfying.

edited 19th Feb '18 5:45:00 AM by Galadriel

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#80712: Feb 19th 2018 at 6:16:03 AM

[up][up] It's easier to avoid the fatigue when you actually do something new. Like Black Panther.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80713: Feb 19th 2018 at 7:21:02 AM

If the numbers on the previous page are correct, BP will make about as much in its 4-day opening weekend as Doctor Strange did in its entire run. Which is rather satisfying.

Wait, seriously? (checks numbers) Wow, yeah. Strange only made $233 million domestic, with a worldwide total of $678 million. Not bad for a blockbuster film in general, all things considered, but for a Marvel film? Yeah, that lands it between Winter Soldier and Thor: The Dark World. Not as bad as Ant-Man but not exactly the stellar take one expects from a Marvel property.

It's almost like people prefer diverse casting to whitewashing or something.

edited 19th Feb '18 7:22:14 AM by TobiasDrake

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Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80714: Feb 19th 2018 at 7:26:12 AM

I would say it's more that Black Panther speaks to something. It's a very culturally important movie with a character that's incredibly meaningful to a lot of people. Not only that but the film by all accounts is, well, great. Many are claiming it's the best Marvel film to date. So it's not surprising that it's doing this well. I always knew it could go the distance.

In comparison, Doctor Strange, from what everyone's told me, is a competently executed and fun enough film but on top of the whitewashing controversy it feels like it's hitting a lot of the same beats as the original Iron Man, and people have had enough of that.

edited 19th Feb '18 7:28:58 AM by Draghinazzo

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80715: Feb 19th 2018 at 7:41:12 AM

Sure, but Strange was also a milestone in the MCU. Not a cultural one, mind you, but a huge one for the invested audience. In the years and months after it was announced, the internet was abuzz with how this would be the first Marvel film to feature magic. Unambiguous magic.

That assertion was incorrect, mind you; Loki, full stop. But that argument fell on deaf ears and fans excitedly chattered about how magic was coming to the MCU for the first time ever. There was a ton of enthusiasm from people who basically wanted Strange to step onscreen, fire off a bolt of energy, then look straight at the audience and go, "Science cannot explain these amazing forces of sorcery coming from my years of reading books!"

Strange wasn't going to be a great cultural turning point but it was slated to be the next-gen Iron Man based on the all the enthusiasm and excitement of people clamoring over the premise. And then the whitewashing thing happened and now it's Thor The Dark World.

That Ant Man managed to do even worse at the box office while Black Panther is raking in Avengers numbers says you really can't discount the effects that marginalization versus diversity are having on these totals.

edited 19th Feb '18 7:42:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80716: Feb 19th 2018 at 7:49:21 AM

I'm not trying to downplay how terrible the whitewashing and marginalization were for those respective films, but I don't think the average moviegoing audience really knows much or cares about the controversies, especially anything related to Ant-Man. At the end of the day they just want to see a fun movie.

I'd bet more that it was because both those films were ultimately just so-so, regardless of other aspects. There wasn't enough in them to resonate with the audience at large.

edited 19th Feb '18 7:50:46 AM by Draghinazzo

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80717: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:21:15 AM

I wasn't aware there even was any sort of whitewashing controversy related to Ant-Man, I was just deeply aggravated by how badly they shortchanged The Wasp.

A female character who is better at everything involved with superheroing than the male lead, but remains limited to a supporting role solely because her father is concerned for her safety, is something better suited to a movie from the '60s or '70s than one from the 2010s. "My family would worry about me getting hurt" isn't considered a reason for Spider-Man not to be a superhero, and Spider-Man (in the MCU) is a child.

If they wanted a decent Ant-Man-style movie, Scott Lang shouldn't even have been in it.

Or is that what you meant?

EDIT: Blank Panther estimates have been updated to $202 million for the 3-day weekend and $235 million for the 4-day weekend.

That's nearly as high as The Avengers for the 3-day weekend (comparing the 4-day totals isn't accurate, as Avenger's wasn't released on a holiday weekend). So, fantastic.

edited 19th Feb '18 8:28:03 AM by Galadriel

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80718: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:26:51 AM

Nobody was saying there was a whitewashing controversy in Ant-Man, but we kind of already got the decent Ant-Man film. I kind of have a soft spot for Scott, truth be told.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80719: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:29:41 AM

I have nothing against Scott Lang except for the fact that The Wasp was better than him at everything, knew the suit better, knew the situation better, had a stronger personal connection with the villain they were fighting, and would in every way have been better suited to the superhero role than he was.

The only reason he was given the opportunity to become Ant-Man was in order to marginalize a better-qualified female character. That taints the whole movie.

And even aside from that, I didn't think it was very good.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80720: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:31:52 AM

I mean I'm not gonna disagree with Hope being better at Scott at like everything, that's the single biggest complaint everyone has over the movie.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80721: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:41:01 AM

Okay, then we agree.

A point in favour of Black Panther having strong audience retention: it only had the 8th-highest Friday, but rose to the 4-highest Saturday gross and is projected to have at least the 2nd-highest Sunday and Monday gross (behind only The Force Awakens).

It's gaining steam, not losing steam.

EDIT: Edited to remove prediction. :D

edited 19th Feb '18 8:57:53 AM by Galadriel

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80722: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:45:07 AM

Shhhh! Knock on wood!

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#80723: Feb 19th 2018 at 8:46:24 AM

Regardless, it's doing very well.

edited 19th Feb '18 8:58:08 AM by Galadriel

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80724: Feb 19th 2018 at 9:25:43 AM

If they wanted a decent Ant-Man-style movie, Scott Lang shouldn't even have been in it.

Or is that what you meant?.

Yeah, that's what I meant. The marginalization controversy with Ant-Man was that Scott Lang seemed completely superfluous. Even in the trailers, it just seemed like another version of this movie. "Why isn't this movie about Hope?" was the obvious question at the start.

Marvel tried to compensate by making Hope's marginalization into a plot point, but making a Doylist problem into a Watsonian one doesn't actually erase the Doylist problem. Like, if Doctor Strange had a plot point about how there were several Asians vying for the title of the Ancient One but our Ancient One was able to claim it through her whiteness, it would not have improved the film in any way.

edited 19th Feb '18 9:28:00 AM by TobiasDrake

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80725: Feb 19th 2018 at 9:28:17 AM

At least she's getting to do shit in the sequel.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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