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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#80601: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:27:43 AM

Honnestly the opening of Spider-man 4 sounds like it would have been the highlight of the series. Spider-man catching a bunch of c list villains in campy home made costumes during a montage.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80602: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:28:44 AM

"Not only am I not the devil, you were never married at all, and in fact, you're actually still in high school! Fooled you!"

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80603: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:30:42 AM

  • Peter: Michelle agreed to go with me to the school dance! This is great!
  • Mysterio: Hey. Hey, Peter.
  • Peter: Oh, no. (facepalm)
  • Mysterio: I'll buy your date for half a retcon.
  • Peter: Why won't you go away.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#80604: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:34:06 AM

[up]If they go that route Campbell needs to play him.

I know he’s got Ash vs Evil Dead but still.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80605: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:35:51 AM

Actually, do a double twist. Have the whole film be a Shout-Out to Superhero films in general. The first act is Spider-Man fighting this over-the-top evil alien with a skybeam, Spidey snarks and quips and the alien is bland and lacking in personality. The second act and first twist is Spider-Man discovering that Mysterio was behind it, and he fights Mysterio, who is a super dark and cynical stunt-man-gone-super-villain with a super edgy and dark backstory involving a mutilated face. The third act and second twist is Spider-Man doing some actual sleuthing and discovering that even that was a facade and the real Mysterio is actually a famous and currently working movie actor who turns out to just be a massive asshole with some other plan that hinged on Spider-Man falling for both of his ruses.

Have Mysterio be played by a SUPER famous actor As Himself. Like, the MCU version of that actor is a super-villain named Mysterio, with the comic Mysterio's identity as his super-villain stage persona.

edited 15th Feb '18 7:41:07 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#80606: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:37:57 AM

Heck, you could even make Mysterio be a guy who used to work in superhero movies. That would add another layer of meta.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80607: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:37:58 AM

[up][up]Yes. This. [tup][awesome]

edited 15th Feb '18 7:38:05 AM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80608: Feb 15th 2018 at 7:43:16 AM

I like PMC's idea and would add that the celebrity "guest-star" playing Mysterio should show up in a few innocuous places, doing cameo bits. Just like the Raimi trilogy was going with Bruce Campbell, only have Peter notice it.

For the sake of example, just drawing a name out of a hat, let's say Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise delivers a pizza to the Parker household and Peter pays him, takes the pizza, then stops and looks back at the door like, "...wait, what?"

Then, later, Tom Cruise is the waiter at a dining establishment he's at. And he looks to Ned and he's like, "Am I crazy, or was that Tom Cruise?" And then Ned flags him down and is all, "Excuse me, sir, my friend and I have a bet on whether or not you're Tom Cruise."

edited 15th Feb '18 7:44:09 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80609: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:00:12 AM

I suddenly have a mighty need for Mark Hamill to play Mysterio.

“WHY IS LUKE SKYWALKER MESSING WITH ME?!??!”

evil grin

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80610: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:08:41 AM

I admit that I'd give a lot to see Bruce Campbell digitally edited into the background of every Marvel movie he wasn't already in. Then have him pull off his Mark Hamill/Tom Cruise/Tom Hardy/Tom Holland masks in quick succession, go full-on Scooby Doo.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#80611: Feb 15th 2018 at 8:37:32 AM

Turns out Mysterio has been disguising as all the Stan Lee cameos.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#80612: Feb 15th 2018 at 9:10:23 AM

Wasn't Comic Doc Ock shown to have some love for his mother? And there was that librarian he fell in love that died of AIDS (which was retconned into being done by Osborn because Marvel thinks complexity is for dorks when it comes to the guy).

Movie Ock may have been more sympathetic but I wouldn't call his comic version 100% evil. At least not until Slott started writing him.

RedM Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
#80613: Feb 15th 2018 at 9:28:48 AM

[up]Yeah, it's weird that Slott likes the character so much, but his rendition is a total cackling madman who once tried to microwave the earth and even joined up with Hydra because it would be profitable. I read an arc from the JMS run with Ock, and I was amazed at how chill he was.

The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#80614: Feb 15th 2018 at 9:45:41 AM

Raimi kind of gave movie Doc Ock a lot of Comic Book Lizard's characteristics.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80615: Feb 15th 2018 at 9:50:25 AM

Ock has had a lot of ups and downs in terms of being a complete monster

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#80616: Feb 15th 2018 at 9:52:29 AM

Ock's one of the characters more drastically changed for the Raimi films but he retains some cornerstones of the character. The main one his motivation is still For Science! first and foremost (the film just decides, in a far-off but plausible change, to explore both sides of the For Science! motivation, with him being simultaneously a Mad Scientist and a kind scientist), it's just downplayed because of the whole "tentacles controlling him" business. And when he's under the sway of his tentacles he acts very close to his comic self's usual brand of Smug Snake Deadpan Snarker wit (the moment Ock arrives at Harry's house drinking brandy with his mechanical arm and the several occasions he removes or puts on his glasses with the arms in the most casual manner possible are pure Octavius). It's just that in this case he only acts this way when he's riding high the madness of his tentacles.

This is the most Otto Octavius shit ever:

The dismissive language, the casual glass removal with the tentacle, the "I'll peel the flesh off her bones" and that majestic cocky grin he gives Mary Jane when he kidnaps her. It's beautiful. You could perhaps say that the film has a very faithful Doctor Octopus but not a very faithful Otto Octavius (essentially because in the film they're two different personalities, while in the comic they're one and the same).

In the comics, his heroic traits tend to be occasional care for some loved ones. The most infamous case being the implication he actually genuinely liked Aunt May that time he married her, and every now and then someone implies he respects Peter Parker himself as a bright student (despite despising Spider-Man).

Spider-Man TAS had a great little moment the Sinister Six actually manage to subdue Spidey but due a bad case of Worf Had the Flu the fight is way too easy, so when they take off his mask and see Peter Parker, Octavius immediately assumes this is Parker dressed up as Spider-Man trying to play the hero. Immediately Octopus tells the other 5 to back off, because Peter's a great student and doesn't deserve this, and then asks him to not come back but bring actual Spider-Man next time.

In the film they somewhat play up on this by having Otto be very fond of Parker and by giving him a beloved wife, so you can say those traits are vague echoes of the comics. The bit that is a truly wild divergence is the idea Otto is under the sway of his own tentacles and they guide him to evil, which admittedly is a pretty big one.

edited 15th Feb '18 9:55:46 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80617: Feb 15th 2018 at 9:56:22 AM

(Probsbly my favorite Ock)

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#80618: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:03:10 AM

Most versions from the comics have said that Doc Ock has brain damage from the accident that gave him his tentacles or otherwise was driven clinically insane, I don't think any version of events had him as genuinely evil from the start. True the comics version didn't have the Jekyl and Hyde dynamic or the same kind of Heel–Face Turn as the movie version, but he certainly had his moments of nobility or sympathy.

Homecoming did a Composite Character between Vulture and Green Goblin, especially in terms of discovering a classmate's dad is the supervillain. The scene where Spidey had to dodge the remote controlled wings was most definitely a Goblin-style action sequence than a Vulture one.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80619: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:07:10 AM

I remember a comic where Doc Ock discovered that he could control his metal arms telepathically while in prison, and they basically ran amuck and were untouchable because Ock's weak point has always been his soft human body in the center, without that, the arms are almost unstoppable. I think Spidey beat them by jamming the laptop he was watching them from, leaving the arms blind.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#80620: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:08:11 AM

Taika Waititi has an idea for a Vision and Scarlet Witch romcom.

edited 15th Feb '18 11:08:20 AM by comicwriter

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#80621: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:16:40 AM

There's also Superior Spider-Man, where Ock genuinely fell in love with a woman who was a little person. And he never once judged her for it. respected her intelligence, nearly killed two jerks who were giving her grief over it, and asked her to marry him. Even Peter acknowledged it later on.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80622: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:45:18 AM

Spider-Man TAS had a great little moment the Sinister Six actually manage to subdue Spidey but due a bad case of Worf Had the Flu the fight is way too easy, so when they take off his mask and see Peter Parker, Octavius immediately assumes this is Parker dressed up as Spider-Man trying to play the hero. Immediately Octopus tells the other 5 to back off, because Peter's a great student and doesn't deserve this, and then asks him to not come back but bring actual Spider-Man next time.

The part about unmasking him and not believing it happened in the comics too. When Peter publicly unmasked during Civil War, Ock threw a massive, violent tantrum over finding out that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, because he actually knew that from so many years ago but had dismissed it as implausible.

edited 15th Feb '18 11:45:49 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80623: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:54:25 AM

I actually quite like the TAS Doc Ock/Peter Parker relationship, because it goes both ways, with Peter having a really good understanding of how Ock thinks in their first encounter (because he knows he does everything For Science!! )

But Spectacular Ock is great as well. I love how intelligent he usually is.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80624: Feb 15th 2018 at 11:58:43 AM

[up][up] You wouldn't happen to know offhand what comic/issue that scene is from, would you? I've been trying to find it.

edited 15th Feb '18 11:58:50 AM by KnownUnknown

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80625: Feb 15th 2018 at 12:10:36 PM

Ock's fit was from Sensational Spider-Man #28, "My Science Teacher is Spider-Man?!" I don't know where the scene he references is from.

All of the Spidey comics were dealing with the fallout of his unmasking at the time. It was one of the most fascinating periods of Spider-history in my opinion. Flash Thompson made him prove it by challenging him to basketball. Deb Whitman published a book about her relationship with him. J. Jonah Jameson sued him for fraud.

Over in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, Peter David wrote one of the greatest Spider-Man stories of all time in my opinion: three separate Mysterios all converged on the high school where Peter worked, each with his own agenda. Hilarity ensued.

edited 15th Feb '18 12:10:53 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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