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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80526: Feb 14th 2018 at 2:30:17 PM

I'll just continue to lament how adaptations make the goo evil from the start

It's scarier to me that Goolissa hikacks Peter's body doing what she thinks he'd want. There's a creepy level of alien viewpoint, that these are good and right actions to do for your new body buddy

Rather than the always evil angle. Evil space gack

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80527: Feb 14th 2018 at 2:38:40 PM

  • Symbiote: WHY WON'T YOU LOVE ME?!?!
  • Peter: Okay, I'm gonna be totally honest here, I just thought you were pants.
  • Symbiote: ...what.
  • Peter: Yeah. Awkward. So I'm gonna go....

Peter's relationship with the symbiote in a nutshell. I agree that it's a shame we never get to see this properly adapted.

edited 14th Feb '18 2:39:03 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80528: Feb 14th 2018 at 2:48:42 PM

Yeah, what Raimi did right (at least in the first two films) was give the villains believable reasons for turning evil. That was something that both of the TASM films have a major problem with - the Lizard's turn everyone into lizards plan makes no sense when taking into account his previous motivations, and even taking into account how unhinged Electro was he seems to go evil on a tiny, tiny excuse. TASM Harry, on the other hand, I mainly have a problem with because Peter is actually directly responsible for his predicament and is never really called out on it by the movie.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#80529: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:12:55 PM

The whole Harry Osborn plot is an Idiot Plot of the highest order. Peter's worry is that his blood will be dangerous to Harry, but he never thinks to maybe, I dunno, take advantage of the Oscrop facility to test it?

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#80530: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:32:45 PM

You're supposed to find the dancing scene to be Peter making a cringeworthy idiot of himself that personally embarrasses you, the viewer, for even watching this movie.

Yep.

Peter through his extremely dorky lens thinks flamboyant dancing, dark clothes, an emo haircut, and acting like he doesn't care is cool.

Now 80 % of the characters react like he's some fool.

But it gets a little confusing since Betty Brant and Gwen Stacy act like they're into him.

So idk. The way it's framed at least says that Raimi thinks it's stupid but believes some women are really into it or perhaps it says something about Gwen and Betty that they're into Emo Parker.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#80531: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:35:45 PM

Issue is, Peter can't explain why his blood would be Dangerous without giving away his identity and revealing that he's related to Dad Parker who made the syrum.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#80532: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:39:14 PM

I mean if it's for a friend who is dying, I think it would be worth telling.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80533: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:42:05 PM

Even then though, at that point Harry has labs and a whole company under his control to test the stuff. He only injected himself recklessly when he was absolutely desperate.

edited 14th Feb '18 3:42:17 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Cross (Don’t ask)
#80534: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:43:24 PM

[up][up][up][up] Maybe it had something to do with the confidence(?) boost along with the excessive dorkiness?

[nja]Then why not have them test the blood first? He probably wouldn't need to explain why it's dangerous if that showed it.

edited 14th Feb '18 3:44:08 PM by Cross

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80535: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:45:45 PM

I mean, the real reason is that the writers don't want Peter to be responsible for giving Harry something that would mess him up....

...except that by doing so they only make Peter look more like a dick.

edited 14th Feb '18 3:45:58 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#80536: Feb 14th 2018 at 3:46:11 PM

Yeah I side with you guys on this. Even if Peter believed the blood would make him crazy and monsterish, he still owed Harry everything he knew, including his secret identity.

But I also understand why Peter could make that mistake, and I apriciate he was brave enough to tell Harry in person.

It annoys me that he doesn't also visit Electro.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#80537: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:21:43 PM

[up][up][up][up]Exactly. It's not like Harry intended to just shotgun the blood like he was downing a can of beer. Peter could have just said "Hey, since Spider-Man is clearly superhuman, I'd recommend testing this before you inject yourself with it." In fact Harry should have been doing that anyway!

It was probably the most blatant case of the writers lazily creating a pointless conflict just because they needed a superhero fight at the end of the movie that I have ever seen.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80538: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:27:37 PM

Spider-Man was a key factor in me ultimately deciding that secret identities were stupid and more trouble than they were worth. I grew up watching the 90's cartoon series and there were so many times where a bunch of drama centered around how Peter needs to Spider-Man but is in an inopportune situation for Spider-Manning, and he has to find a way to excuse himself so that he can Spider-Man without anyone knowing he's Spider-Manning.

And I got to thinking like, "Oh my god, how much easier would his life be if he could just go, 'Hey, I gotta go Spider-Man real quick. I'll be back later.'"

Getting into other superheroes like Iron Man or the Fantastic Four only reinforced this idea that secret identities are just more trouble than they're worth.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80539: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:30:00 PM

There was a pair of relevant comics that this reminds me of

One a Hulk story where he refuses to give some hulk blood to a friend for fear of creating another hulk just like the time She-Hulk happened

And a Savage Dragon story where he did give blood which caused his friend to explode

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#80540: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:30:03 PM

I think it helps, generally, that he doesn't have the resources to ensure that his loved ones would be safe from reprisal if his identity became public.

Of course, the Avengers would probably be able to offer that protection. And of course, there's a difference between not going public with his identity, and not even telling his closest friends and family...

Oh God! Natural light!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80541: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:34:59 PM

Yeah. Aunt May deserves to know, if nothing else. I'm so glad Homecoming let her find out, and I am eagerly looking forward to the fallout from that.

While also bringing in Ned as a Secret-Keeper. And strongly hinting that Michelle's figured him out, which makes sense if she's supposed to be MJ.

Plus Stark and the Avengers.

MCU Peter's secret identity is right now at my comfort level of, "Okay, fine, if you must do the anonymous hero thing, whatever. But some people have a right to know." He's formally recognized by a peacekeeping agency while the family and friends he's so concerned with keeping out of harm's way are at least aware that his actions are placing them in harm's way in the first place. That's good enough to appease me.

edited 14th Feb '18 4:36:07 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80542: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:36:56 PM

I agree

It's kind of fucked up that once upon a time Peter seriously considered marrying Gwen without telling her his secret identity

Peter. Geez.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80543: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:38:54 PM

You have a right to know if you're going to be party to that. Like, Ned has a right to know that there's an alien artifact in his backpack that may or may not be an unstable explosive. Which he did, as much as Peter knew and thus was able to share. So that's good.

Aunt May has a right to know that the Green Goblin might smash open her house and make her read Bible verses. But she didn't. In fact, she never found out what that was about. So far as she knows, a Power Ranger just blew up her home and made her pray for no reason. Not cool, bro.

edited 14th Feb '18 4:42:27 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#80544: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:45:22 PM

On the subject of Aunt May, it's almost a bit of a shame that this version of her is younger. I would have loved to see her Golden Oldie identity in action one day.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80545: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:47:58 PM

If the Fox buyout goes through, Aunt May becoming a Herald of Galactus won't be out of the question.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#80546: Feb 14th 2018 at 4:49:33 PM

"Aunt May has a right to know that the Green Goblin might smash open her house and make her read Bible verses." [lol]

Yeah, while I'm a bit ambivalent on having "street level heroes" interact with/be sponsored by/have their identities known by "higher up" heroes, I think it's really good how much superhero media has moved away from heroes keeping their identities secret from their loved ones.

Because like the Green Goblin doesn't have to know that Peter is Spider-Man (or to put it another way, there's a reason why the MCU!Avengers mostly have publicly known identities and Spider-Man doesn't, and that reason is because they are a private army). But there really isn't a good reason why Peter's loved ones shouldn't know his identity.

Granted, I'm not averse to some drama where someone doesn't know the identity. Like as much as I generally find annoying a secret identity creating problems in a hero's dating life, I "liked" how Liz ends Homecoming with her life ruined and feeling a grudge toward Peter and probably Spider-Man too.

I mean I didn't like the fact that her life was ruined, but I think a civilian being out of the loop works for drama in a way it doesn't for Cringe Comedy. And it wouldn't be Spider-Man if he didn't experience angst from indirectly ruining at least one person's life.

edited 14th Feb '18 4:50:46 PM by Hodor2

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80547: Feb 14th 2018 at 5:02:05 PM

[up]x10

The worst part is, if you had Peter give Harry the blood and then Oscorp gets taken away from Harry, so Harry injects himself in desperation and as a result goes crazy, and then blames Peter/Spidey because he thinks he poisoned the blood or something, you have a much more consistent line of motivations.

But they didn't do that.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80548: Feb 14th 2018 at 5:02:19 PM

I liked what happened with Liz too. Homecoming really didn't pull any punches with that one. Toomes's central motivation was that he was trying to support the lives that his family leads. The obvious consequences of his operation being shutdown and him going to prison are played out onscreen, no bones about it.

Peter got the bad guy, got the alien weapons off the street, and saved the day. But that comes with a cost, and the movie does not shy away from showing it.

edited 14th Feb '18 5:03:20 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#80549: Feb 14th 2018 at 5:05:11 PM

So far as she knows, a Power Ranger just blew up her home and made her pray for no reason. Not cool, bro.

I love you guys. [lol][tup]

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#80550: Feb 14th 2018 at 5:07:09 PM

These power rangers are a menace to society,we should make them sign the accords!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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