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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#80326: Feb 11th 2018 at 5:06:33 PM

I find his character very faithfully reproduced, and Vulture likewise (despite the liberal thing done with his role and origins) is also a strong adaptation of the character. I have no complaints.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#80327: Feb 11th 2018 at 5:12:40 PM

Isn't Yggdrasil in the MCU not a literal tree, but a nebula cloud spanning across the Nine Realms? Doesn't seem like something one could pluck a wooden branch out of.

edited 11th Feb '18 5:13:39 PM by Tuckerscreator

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#80328: Feb 11th 2018 at 5:13:17 PM

My only knowledge of the vulture was from the cartoon where he looked more like a vulture and drained people of their youth

I think most people are glad they didn't go with that since that just sounds so..silly?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80329: Feb 11th 2018 at 5:13:22 PM

To be more clear, Peter's arc in Homecoming is that of a kid who idolizes a mentor, and seeks to become just like him while skipping over the steps he would need to get to that point. He learns responsibility by way of realizing that while he's aiming for the stars, he's overlooking the way his actions affect other people. It's a very unique interpretation of responsibility to the franchise as a whole.

The best example of how different from basically every other version of the character this makes him is in how Homecoming presents a Peter that is explicitly disdainful of helping regular people (though not unwilling) because he's focused on doing "big" things. Now that he's a superhero, he doesn't want to stop muggers, he wants to stop robot invasions. He wants to get out of his neighborhood and move to bigger pastures, and has to be made to appreciate what he has - which is, initially, treated more as a hindrance than a calling. So one of the primary things he learns is compassion for the people around him, etc.

It's a "restless protege" story, and the central relationship of the movie is the one Peter has with Tony. In general, that's where the comparison to Robin tends to come from (which, joking aside, isn't entirely inaccurate):

Generally, it's a result of rewriting the character to be associated with a character already in the cinematic universe. Spider-Man is typically a solo character with his own character arcs, but since they couldn't (or at least, wouldn't) do that in the MCU, he's rewritten to have his morals dependent on Tony.

edited 11th Feb '18 5:25:40 PM by KnownUnknown

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80330: Feb 11th 2018 at 5:18:03 PM

Tom Holland is a precious puppy and was perfect casting. Homecoming soars on his performance in spite of being a little formulaic.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#80331: Feb 11th 2018 at 5:21:29 PM

Tom Holland is both my son and my crush.

Our relationship is complicated.

My various fanfics.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80332: Feb 11th 2018 at 6:14:14 PM

Don’t google his lip sync battle performance, then wink

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#80333: Feb 11th 2018 at 6:50:06 PM

Oh, no, I have. Several times.

My various fanfics.
Vampfox Since: Nov, 2012
#80334: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:10:19 PM

I found Homecoming to be overrated.

Than again I dislike High School Spider-Man. I grew up reading the comics where he was married to Mary Jane so I prefer married Spider-Man.

I'm sick of Marvel trying to make High School Spider-Man seem important when he was only in High School for the first 28 issues.

Adult Spider-Man is way more important to the franchise that the High School version.

Also I hate how Uncle Ben's not mentioned at all.

Also Peter wanting to impress Tony that much was against the core of the character.

Michael Keaton is the best thing about the movie. I wished that he played Norman Osborn instead.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80335: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:27:02 PM

I kind of agree that continuously hitting the reset button and keeping Peter Parker in high school is frustrating. But that's the same reason why I'm glad it's not Norman Osborn (although I'll bet a lot of casual moviegoers have a pretty limited ability to know or care why the Green Goblin was named Adrian Toomes and had wings instead of a glider in this movie), and why I don't really have a problem with them not showing Uncle Ben's death or showing Spider-Man's days as a solo hero, because we've seen those movies, too. I get that people don't want Peter to become Iron Man's sidekick, but in taking it head-on and acknowledging it as part of the plot, they sidestepped a lot of the questions that not showing that passing of the torch would have raised.

edited 12th Feb '18 5:01:51 AM by Unsung

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#80336: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:39:44 PM

Uncle Ben isn't named but he definitely gets reference in both Homecoming and Civil War.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80337: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:48:23 PM

I think we're overselling the extent to which Marvel is pushing high school Spider-Man. A couple of tv shows and a movie does not a complete reversion make, especially when the current comics feature a fully adult Spidey and nearly every other adaptation (including currently-in-production video games) have featured him in college.

Homecoming is almost certainly going to be doing a thing where Peter starts in high school and matures into an adult over the course of his series (much like Amazing tried to do before screwing up), so it's not like the intention of that movie is to keep the character stuck in high school either.

edited 11th Feb '18 7:51:41 PM by KnownUnknown

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80338: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:55:05 PM

Well, it's the movie and TV adaptations that people are talking about— that they're doing adult Spider-Man in the comics but not the adaptations *is* the complaint. And at the rate at which the individual series get cancelled and rebooted, if they all start with Spider-Man in high school, we'll never get to the point where he's grown all the way up. Maybe Peter Holland will be different, but either way, the point for me is that every franchise does not have to start with the origin story. At the very least you can reserve that for a flashback to however many years earlier.

edited 12th Feb '18 5:01:21 AM by Unsung

Vampfox Since: Nov, 2012
#80339: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:59:31 PM

I wouldn't even call the Spider-Man in the comics an adult.

Ever since Marvel ruined the character by getting rid of his marriage to Mary Jane, he's been written as an immature manchild ever since.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80340: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:01:23 PM

Homecoming didn't start with the origin story. All the bits of Peter's origin were completely skipped. Him in high school isn't just a setting for his origin, it's Peter Parker at his most iconic.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80341: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:03:11 PM

The fact of the matter is still that high school adaptations are in the extreme minority. So the franchise does origin adaptations for a few years. Franchises do that. Batman - for example - did that for a while with the Begins / The Batman double whammy, and has since off and on done origin adaptations. But it doesn't impact the overall brand.

I'm just not seeing why this particular run of high school adaptations is so problematic for Spidey's franchise, especially given how Marvel has made it clear that they're still invested in adult Spider-Man.

edited 11th Feb '18 8:08:27 PM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#80342: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:05:00 PM

It's based in part around the early Civil War era where Tony became a weirdo father figur to Peter before sending supervillains to beat him up

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Vampfox Since: Nov, 2012
#80343: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:06:12 PM

Pushover Media Critic High School Spider-Man is not the character at his most iconic. Adult Spider-Man is.

Something that only lasted for the first 28 issues can't be the most iconic version of the character.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80344: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:08:52 PM

Ever since Marvel ruined the character by getting rid of his marriage to Mary Jane, he's been written as an immature manchild ever since.

IIRC, his gimmick for the last few years is juggling running a major corporation and being a superhero, which is a pretty far cry from the manchild idea people assumed he would fall into after OMD.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#80345: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:09:58 PM

"Artist Says Kendrick Lamar Video for ''Black Panther'' Song Stole Her Work".

The team behind Black Panther, the film featuring the first black superhero to appear in mainstream comics, is facing allegations by a British-Liberian artist that her work was used without permission in Kendrick Lamar's just-released music video for "All the Stars", a song from the movie's soundtrack. [...] Ms. Viktor had been contacted twice by the film's creators for permission to feature her work, the letter says, but she decided not to participate.

In detailing the infringement, the letter says the video contains a 19-second segment (starting at the 2:59 mark) "that incorporates not just the immediately-identifiable and unique look of her work, but also many of the specific copyrightable elements in the 'Constellations' series of paintings, including stylized motifs of mythical animals, gilded geometric forms on a black background, and distinctively textured areas and patterns, arrayed in a grid-like arrangement of forms."

Nancy E. Wolff, a copyright lawyer who currently serves as the president of the Copyright Society of the USA, said that the video's directors are likely to argue that the images in the video are not exact copies. But because the gold-on-black aesthetic of Ms. Viktor’s work "is so strong", Ms. Wolff said, "it's just going to look like it's the same."

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#80346: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:10:05 PM

This does bring up the question of what makes a character "iconic". True, the original comic only show him in high school for 28 issues, but what about every other piece of media? Not everyone reads the Amazing comics and many people know of Spider-Man through the cartoons (most of which have him in high school), the Amazing movies (high school), the Ultimate line (high school), and now Homecoming.

That being said, I do agree that married Peter is best Peter.

edited 11th Feb '18 8:10:36 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80347: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:11:27 PM

Spider-Man in high school is in the minority of Spider-Man stories ever told, but if the complaint is about the content of the adaptations, then three separate movie franchises and two animated series in the past twenty years have all started with Spidey in high school (with another animated series based on the first movie franchise), and none of them have so far lasted long enough for him to get through university. I don't think this is cherry-picking, really.

edited 11th Feb '18 8:17:13 PM by Unsung

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#80348: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:12:30 PM

There was the Spidey comic series a few month ago, which re-told his high school days.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80349: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:13:05 PM

Ultimate Spider-Man, too.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#80350: Feb 11th 2018 at 8:20:32 PM

Being blunt, comic Spider-Man isn't the most iconic version of Spider-Man.


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