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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#80176: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:55:44 PM

I used "identity politics" after someone accused me of calling the critics "ess-jay-doubleyews" when I had done nothing of the sort. I hadn't used that particular buzzword. I was mostly being cheeky.

Ignoring the fact that you used the classic alt right defense of the "Just Joking" Justification

Gi TS was subject to such a gigantic shitstorm of pointless, manufactured controversy that it being critically assassinated was unavoidable.

but it's becoming harder and harder for me not to think that there is a vested interest in making sure that audiences go see some movies on their part.

Like I'm not stupid. English is my first language so I've heard all the double speak before. Honestly, you're spouting alt right talking points. And if you're not of the alt right, you're doing a poor job arguing your points

GKG Since: Nov, 2012
#80177: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:11:59 PM

You brought the alt-right buzzwords in here first. But yeah, I'm sure that there's litterally nothing between you and the alt-right, politically. Only two extremes: yours and theirs. It's not possible that some people might fall somewhere in the middle.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80178: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:14:38 PM

I really hate to take TKG's side in any way because I think his arguments have been poor and disingenuous, but his views and arguments aren't exactly exclusive to the alt-right. They're pretty common everywhere and people who aren't alt-right parrot them all the time.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80179: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:15:00 PM

[up][up]

So bothsiderism, Golden Mean Fallacy, and pretending that pointing out racism is somehow as extreme as literal Nazism.

edited 8th Feb '18 1:15:19 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#80180: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:15:35 PM

do you have an argument for why the #AA Iron Fist (it's short for Asian-American Iron Fist, in case you didn't know) movement was bad and wrong beyond "someone was a bit snarky on Twitter once" and "engaging in any sort of preemptive criticism of a story's narrative conceit is wrong," or is this all you're giving us?

Hey now, at least do us the common courtesy of saying "no, I don't have an argument." It's polite.

I have other...words about your attempt at invoking horseshoe theory based off of the thinnest possible grounds, but that's off-topic for this thread.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#80181: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:21:27 PM

Hey, can we all take it down a notch or, preferably, move on to a different point of discussion? This is going nowhere, is not pleasing anyone as far as I can tell, and has been straying pretty far off-topic.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80182: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:24:04 PM

[up] Going to agree, yeah. This is not a particularly enjoyable discussion to read.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80183: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:24:56 PM

So the Black Panther costumes look freaking amazing. There’s already a little Oscar buzz waii

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#80184: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:28:46 PM

It is indeed quite awesome.

This song needs more love.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#80185: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:29:17 PM

It's certainly Costume Porn, and I am someone who loves Costume Porn.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80186: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:31:20 PM

They are very nice costumes, yes.

I knew the visual design was going to be on-point from looking at a few of the comics unless someone seriously dropped the ball.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#80187: Feb 8th 2018 at 1:33:06 PM

The costumes are amazing, even from the perspective of someone who has no real knowledge of various forms of African cultural garb.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80188: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:03:06 PM

Here’s a really cool interview with the costume designer, Ruth E. Carter. She talks about finding various designs and styles from around Africa and from the Afrofuturism movement.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#80189: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:07:17 PM

There's definitely shades of Doing It for the Art to the costumes, unmatched by any other MCU franchise except for maybe some of the Thor films (and even then most of the more interesting costumes failed to make it out of the concept phase). I've counted at least four very elaborate costumes for Shuri alone.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#80190: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:33:12 PM

The costumes look really freaking top-notch. Seems like the costumes as well as the scenery of Wakanda alone would still make the movie well worth watching in theaters. I really can't wait to see it. grin

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#80191: Feb 8th 2018 at 2:40:09 PM

They really pulled deep and spread their influences wide for authentic costuming for this movie, too. I live in a place that has quite a few regular joes with artistic careers, plus a prominent African Market, and I know of people from on the block who worked on this movie.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80192: Feb 8th 2018 at 3:32:48 PM

[up][up][up] A lot of thought went into the costumes for Agent Carter. But yeah, I would be surprised if Black Panther doesn't get a nom for best costume, unless the voters have forgotten at this point that it is a 2018 release.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80193: Feb 8th 2018 at 3:33:05 PM

On a related note, here’s a really cool interview with Camille Friend, the head of the hair department for Black Panther. There’s several different styles of hair she used, based on the character and the different tribes. And all the hair styles are natural hair.

SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#80195: Feb 8th 2018 at 9:28:41 PM

Hmm, sorry if I bring old topic up, but I do want to ask if Mighty Whitey would still be a thing if instead of American or British person it would be Scandinavian or Italian? Because seriously, I'm annoyed at generalizing all Europeans and part of America into one category.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80196: Feb 8th 2018 at 9:35:15 PM

Turnabout is fair play— it's about the aftermath of European colonialism, and the conscious choice to make whiteness into an identity. It's not going to be exactly the same for every country.

Not every white person is inherently guilty of this. It's a matter of portrayal, and it's only an extended 'punishment' for colonialism (not that you're saying this but I've heard it in those terms) insofar as that portrayal is used to perpetuate that stereotype of other non-European cultures. As pitfalls go, it's pretty obvious and easily avoided.

[up][up]Once again Sam Jackson looks like the youngest person in that photo.

edited 8th Feb '18 9:41:49 PM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#80197: Feb 8th 2018 at 9:42:22 PM

I want to make a movie where a Chinese man travels across the world to a far away and distant land, coming to study at a secret ranch hidden high in the mystical mountains of Montana. There, he must learn the ancient art of rodeo through a montage taking place over a couple weeks, just in time to ride against a dark and sinister force that can only be stopped by the one true prophesied master of the cowboy ways.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#80198: Feb 8th 2018 at 9:43:55 PM

I don't see that nuance being often expressed in Internet though. Like, not all countries had part in colonialism and even then, its bizarre to me to identify all diverse European countries as being part of same identity. Heck, most people I know have hard time with identifying with Americans <_<

Either way though, I do wonder if you actually have to be "white" for it to count as Mighty Whitey since the trope article itself points out that anime/manga do the same thing with all offensiveness included just with main character being Japanese. Page even mentions its more convenient to define it as "modern" person being portrayed as superior to "ancient" people.

[up] [lol] That does sound awesome

Though, I suppose someone could interpret it as western ways being shown as superior, so someone could be offended. Like, isn't main reason why "Western person becomes master of Eastern art" offensive because of historical things Europe and America has done? I would assume most people would realize it to be parody of the trope though

edited 8th Feb '18 9:46:18 PM by SpookyMask

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#80199: Feb 8th 2018 at 9:46:20 PM

I'd say no, you don't have to be white. The colonialism, paternalism, and appropriative aspects are the main thing.

[up][up]Shang-Chi: The Legend of Curly's Gold

edited 8th Feb '18 9:46:39 PM by Unsung

SpookyMask Since: Jan, 2011
#80200: Feb 8th 2018 at 9:51:50 PM

Hmm yeah.

Oh, one more thing I was wondering about: Would Danny Rand having been Asian really make it much better? I mean, it would still have been about American man mastering eastern arts in couple of weeks <_< Unless you meant that character wouldn't have been American originally even if show takes place in New York, in which case yeah it wouldn't carry the implications I think.

(note: Sorry if I say really inaccurate things since I haven't seen the show)

edited 8th Feb '18 9:53:37 PM by SpookyMask


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