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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80051: Feb 7th 2018 at 5:58:00 PM

He used a fancy word to whine about the movie being too thoughtful. I just thought it was funny.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80052: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:09:44 AM

[up][up][up] Except that nobody truly cared who it would be. It was just idle curiosity and a commentary on a process seen multiple times by now.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#80053: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:17:13 AM

So I was reading reviews for Black Panther on RT... anyone else notice that of the 15 top critics, none of the 9 with pictures are black? Out of 35 critics overall with photos, only 4 are black.

Some of the non-photo critics could be black, but I just found it really jarring to see a sea of white faces for the reviews.

This kinda annoys me because it positions black people as the only large minority in America. What about Asians and Hispanics?

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80054: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:20:40 AM

Given Black Panther’s cultural relevance, I thought that noteworthy. I suspect if I looked at the Coco reviews there’d be a dearth of Latinx critics.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#80055: Feb 8th 2018 at 12:20:40 AM

[up] They'll have their chance soon.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80056: Feb 8th 2018 at 4:34:54 AM

Perhaps RT should add a new feature which allows to filter reviews based on the gender, race and age of the reviewer.....tongue

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80057: Feb 8th 2018 at 4:39:08 AM

Or maybe the systemic underrepresentation of minority groups in influential positions as critics and reviewers is an actual serious issue that one should contemplate without being glib.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#80058: Feb 8th 2018 at 4:42:18 AM

[up]I was only half-joking. As I pointed out, RT only reflects what is there. A filter like this would make any imbalance way more visible.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80059: Feb 8th 2018 at 4:45:02 AM

Yeah, it would. And I’m not saying that the crappy behavior of major publications is RT’s fault, but they could definitely beef up the inclusion if they looked at more websites/papers. There’s plenty of local, reputable black and latinx newspapers around the country. And there’s plenty of major websites too.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#80060: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:05:03 AM

Marvel Studios celebrates its first 10 years!

GKG Since: Nov, 2012
#80061: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:19:27 AM

I'm fairly confident that BP's review score is overbloated because the critics are reviewing the idea of the movie and not the movie itself.

A cursory look at foreign reviews will very quickly show a different picture: the consensus there seems to be that the movie is a good Marvel movie, but that it's not anywhere near deserving of the rather insane amounts of hyperbolic praise that it's getting. It's got a very standard Marvel plot. The humor falls flat. The art direction is half-assed and a lost opportunity. The CGI is shoddy in places. The action isn't particularly well-shot. It portrays Africa the way many African-Americans think Africa is, in a very "theme park" way. Not every single foreign review makes those specific issues, but they do seem to come back a fair bit, and I haven't seen them come up very often in American reviews.

The same thing went with Wonder Woman. Mostly everyone know will admit that the third act is an unholy blunder - which was something I remember foreign reviews mentioning often and America reviews mentioning very little. I'm not gonna say that American critics are all spineless cowards - they do their jobs properly most of the time -, but it's becoming harder and harder for me not to think that there is a vested interest in making sure that audiences go see some movies on their part.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80062: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:22:33 AM

...dude. Could you just... not? Like. Once it’s out if you see the movie and share those complaints it’s fine, but that post was a ginormous buzzkill. And you didn’t even cite any specific reviews- you just summed up all the supposed reasons why this movie is presumably mediocre.

I’ll also point out cultural differences. Just cause China loves Transformers doesn’t invalidate American critics’ problems with it, nor does Chinese apathy toward The Last Jedi automatically make it bad.

edited 8th Feb '18 10:24:57 AM by wisewillow

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#80063: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:24:20 AM

Jesus are we still doing this.

GKG Since: Nov, 2012
#80064: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:25:42 AM

If one post expressing skepticism over the outrageous amounts of hype for a superhero movie is enough to completely kill your buzz, that's on you, not me.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80065: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:27:20 AM

[up][up][up][up] Until you've seen the film yourself, complaining about most of these things is premature. The fact that "foreign" reviews are more critical doesn't necessarily mean they're more accurate, either.

edited 8th Feb '18 10:27:37 AM by Draghinazzo

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80066: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:29:25 AM

The third act in Wonder Woman isn't an unholy blunder, it's just a step down from the excellent first bit. It's not bad, it's just kind of not living up the hype of the first half.

Though I do take your point, that maybe a broader pool might yield some interesting perspectives. Have you got any specific foreign reviewers you think we should check out?

edited 8th Feb '18 10:33:48 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#80067: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:29:37 AM

[up][up][up]There’s a difference between “hey, this seems overhyped; I’m skeptical cause doubtless the film has flaws” and “here’s a laundry list of why foreign critics say the movie sucks and also I think American critics were bribed.”

edited 8th Feb '18 10:29:57 AM by wisewillow

GKG Since: Nov, 2012
#80068: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:31:46 AM

The fact that foreign critics actually mention specific elements of the movie that don't and don't work rather than filling them with buzzwords (IMPORTANT! INSPIRING! GROUNDBREAKING! BLACK PANTHER MATTERS!) would indicate that yes, they are more accurate. Unless you're telling me that foreign critics are completetely making up the issues that they bring up.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#80069: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:31:52 AM

I'm fairly confident that BP's review score is overbloated because the critics are reviewing the idea of the movie and not the movie itself. [...] The same thing went with Wonder Woman.

Movies with female superhero leads before Wonder Woman with “Rotten” review scores: all of them.

Movies with black superhero leads with “Rotten” review scores: All the Blade movies, Hancock, Suicide Squad, Spawn, etc.

edited 8th Feb '18 10:36:21 AM by Tuckerscreator

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#80070: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:32:35 AM

Shit, the most high profile black superhero movie before Black Panther was Steel.

[up]Hilariously, you also had Ghost in the Shell come out the same year as Wonder Woman, and it was panned.

edited 8th Feb '18 10:33:07 AM by comicwriter

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80071: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:36:40 AM

The fact that foreign critics actually mention specific elements of the movie that don't and don't work rather than filling them with buzzwords (IMPORTANT! INSPIRING! GROUNDBREAKING! BLACK PANTHER MATTERS!) would indicate that yes, they are more accurate. Unless you're telling me that foreign critics are completetely making up the issues that they bring up.

Or, you know, someone can have a different opinion as to whether something is a problem or not?

I'm not even saying that BP doesn't have problems (because no movie is perfect), what I'm taking issue with is your assertion that critics are somehow politically motivated to give BP higher scores which isn't really a good look and makes for a bad-faith discussion.

GKG Since: Nov, 2012
#80072: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:40:39 AM

Gi TS was subject to such a gigantic shitstorm of pointless, manufactured controversy that it being critically assassinated was unavoidable.

Besides, you guys were very busy circlejerking over the one negative review on the last page, so please stop being hypocritical.

PS: So no American critic considers clichéd stories, bad special effects, uninspired production design, bad action scenes or unconsistent pacing to be flaws in a movie. Wow. Suddenly RT seems even more useless than before.

edited 8th Feb '18 10:42:14 AM by GKG

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#80073: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:42:20 AM

I just want to say I'm not totally adverse to your point of view note  but there is some slight aggression in how you're going about expressing it.

BTW, what foreign reviewers would you reccomend checking out for Black Panther that give a different perspective?

edited 8th Feb '18 10:44:00 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#80074: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:44:05 AM

So no American critic considers clichéd stories, bad special effects, uninspired production design, bad action scenes or unconsistent pacing to be flaws in a movie. Wow. Suddenly RT seems even more useless than before.

Or people don't think the story is cliché, disagree that the special effects or action scenes are bad? You're being deliberately obtuse about this and if I'm quite honest, your dismissal of the whitewashing complaints about Git S as a "manufactured controversy" (as opposed to the film getting bad reviews because it was an uninspired mediocre sci-fi film) isn't really making your initial point look any better.

I don't think anyone would really mind you saying "I've been looking at some foreign reviews and they seem to be more critical so maybe this movie has some issues that aren't being talked about as much as they should be", but the way you're going about arguing this and the conclusions you're reaching from the situation aren't particularly great.

edited 8th Feb '18 10:51:30 AM by Draghinazzo

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#80075: Feb 8th 2018 at 10:46:53 AM

Coupled with dismissively saying "Black Panther Lives Matter", it comes off as kinda bigoted too.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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