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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#79976: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:55:12 PM

The Falcon must get sick of all the tweeting

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79977: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:04:54 PM

Just because the far right are idiots it doesn't mean like we should ignore that specific movies are sometimes graded on a curve for various reasons.

And, anyway, I don't think that it matters in this case, because everything above an 8.0 average (and BP still has 8.6, now with 54 reviews counted) indicates a truly good mood, potentially great, movie. Being important in one way or another can make the difference between an okay movie getting praised or panned for just being okay. It can't turn a bad movie into a good reviewed one.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#79978: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:15:16 PM

I think any speculation that BP is getting overinflated scores because of its cultural importance should really be saved for when most everyone has seen the film.

Keep in mind that Marvel films tend to get good scores anyways. Depending on your opinion it might only be as inflated as most other Marvel films are.

edited 6th Feb '18 2:15:52 PM by Draghinazzo

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#79979: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:15:55 PM

Ryan Coogler has plans for a Black Panther sequel [1]

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79980: Feb 6th 2018 at 2:50:28 PM

[up] Well, he most likely will get whatever he wants.

On a different note: No villain write up this week (I would have been forced to rush this article due to having replaced my computer last week), but I finished up an article I have been writing on for a while about what the advantages of a Cinematic universe are:

https://swanpride3.wordpress.com/2018/02/06/marvel-musings-the-advantage-of-the-mcu/

I felt it was time for something else than "The Problem with the MCU" articles and video essays.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#79981: Feb 6th 2018 at 3:05:51 PM

I have no reason to think the scores for BP are inflated, since all of the reviewers are talking about concrete things they like: characters, themes, visuals, etc. It's not like with Strange when most of the reviews said things along the lines of "while, the plot is derivative and the characters are flat, but it has pretty visuals" and it got about 80% for that.

In addition: telling a new kind of story is something that adds to a movie's quality. Black Panther is the first Hollywood movie with an black African main character that isn't based on historical events, and going hy the reviews that's something that affects the characters and themes to a large degree. That's a legitimate point in the movie's favour: it's more creative to tell new stories than to feature the same types of characters all the time. Giving the movie credit for that isn't "inflating".

edited 6th Feb '18 3:07:38 PM by Galadriel

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#79982: Feb 6th 2018 at 3:24:49 PM

[up] Coming to America would like to have a word with you. tongue

But yeah, fair point, and I am fully hyped for this movie and expecting it to be just as good as everyone says it is, and that's after I came away from Thor Ragnarok a little disappointed. The whole thing as it relates to Black Panther was largely hypothetical anyways, since this whole thing started with questioning why arguments that the score is overinflated would keep going just because superhero films starring black superheroes tanked before. The point was that those two situations are not the same thing, and occasionally good-not-great movies are elevated to great status critically because more emphasis is placed on what they stand for. No statement that that is the case with Black Panther, just an observation of a phenomenon.

edited 6th Feb '18 3:26:05 PM by Khfan429

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79983: Feb 6th 2018 at 3:25:58 PM

[up][up] Which is pretty much what was already said here. There was a danger of inflating, but it looks like the movie convinces in its own right. Which isn't really that surprising considering all the talent involved. I mean, it seems like Marvel just went and scooped up every minority with talent in Hollywood to work on this movie. They even have the one highly regarded female Cinematographer in the business....which is doubly impressive because they hired her before she became the first female scoring an academy award nomination in this category (and for a Netflix movie!).

edited 6th Feb '18 3:26:07 PM by Swanpride

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#79984: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:06:43 PM

scooped up every minority with talent in Hollywood

Not “every minority” (and don’t call people a minority, cmon now), Black/African-American/African people. Latinx and Asian-American representation isn’t part of Black Panther.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#79985: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:15:14 PM

Black Panther IMAX poster.

All the high praise for Killmonger has me hoping Marvel will manage to do Thanos justice.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:17:36 PM by comicwriter

Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#79986: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:28:21 PM

If (big if) Black Panther really is as impressive as the early reviews indicate, I wonder if it could snag a Best Picture nomination. Usually the MCU is limited to categories like Visual Effects & Costume Design, but that 87 on Metacritic is very unusual for the franchise.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79987: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:33:33 PM

Black Panther is the first Hollywood movie with an black African main character that isn't based on historical events, and going hy the reviews that's something that affects the characters and themes to a large degree.

I was going to call you out on that by mentioning previous films like Blade, Spawn and (regretably) Steel, but then I realize you meant Black African main character which is different from Spawn (Black American), Blade (Black Britain) and Steel (Black LA Lakers).

But yeah the reviews are totally over inflated due to the combination of Rotten Tomatoes being bought out by Disney just like everything else and the fact its the first movie with a black superhero.

[Sees X-Men]

No my mistake I mean its the first movie with a black superhero as a lead role.

[Sees Steel]

First movie with a black superhero as a lead role that is good

[Sees Spawn]

First movie with a black superhero as a lead role that is objectively good.

[Sees Blade]

First movie with a black superhero as a lead role that is objectively good that is made by Marvel

[Sees Blade Again]

I SAID MADE BY MARVEL! Not any other studio!

Wait, am I getting at with this joke? Oh right something about Rotten Tometoes just being a review database site rather than an actual review site, and mocking the whole idea of the site having a bias when it pretty much the movies review equivalent to the whole Youtube Copyright Algorithm.

Either way, I think the postive reviews sound about right. After all, the director does have a really good track record for making great films.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:34:57 PM by BigK1337

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#79988: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:42:40 PM

Good blogpost, Swanpride

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#79989: Feb 6th 2018 at 4:48:15 PM

[up][up] RT is a joint venture between NBCUniversal & Time Warner. Oh wait, you were joking.

edited 6th Feb '18 4:50:43 PM by Spinosegnosaurus77

Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79990: Feb 6th 2018 at 6:11:48 PM

[up][up] Thanks. I really felt it was time to see the MCU from a "what can it do what a stand-alone movie can't" perspective.

[up][up][up] This is not just about a single element, it is about the Zeitgeist. To mention a few examples: Would have Birdman be that successful a few years earlier? Maybe, but that so many people in Hollywood saw their annoyance with certain movies expressed in it certainly helped. Did any superheroine movie before Wonder Woman any hype? No, partly because none of them had the budget and the exposure, and partly because it is freaking Wonder Woman, feminist icon, storming the screens in a wake of woman taking to the streets again, screaming for the rights in a way they haven't for a long time. So let's not pretend that having a big block-buster movie which a mostly black cast, including a number of females (which have an even harder time to get roles than their male counterparts due to being a double minority) in the wake of Black lives matter and racist marches which are excused by the freaking president don't matter. It is not wrong to acknowledge this.

Anyway, one reviewer was ready to bet that the movie is a lock down for the usual categories, like costume design, set design aso. Which would already be a success for a Marvel movie. Those aren't exactly academy darlings (see the popularity of Birdman).

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#79991: Feb 6th 2018 at 7:50:32 PM

Awesome fighter, genius, king, and with a 100% movie score. T'Challa can do a lot of things. But can he find out how many licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?!

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#79992: Feb 6th 2018 at 7:56:59 PM

BTW, we're now up to 61 reviews and still at 100%.

This song needs more love.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#79993: Feb 6th 2018 at 7:59:33 PM

I think Alley Oop mostly summed up my feelings in her earlier post: there was a lot of great talent and a lot of passion that went into this movie. I'm not surprised that it turned out to be a genuinely strong movie.

I'm also expecting it to make some serious bank.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:02:34 PM by Draghinazzo

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79994: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:00:09 PM

[up] x4 I’m sorry, but what.

My comment wasn’t even trying to pretend that the all black cast in a super hero movie blockbuster doesn’t matter. It was lampooning on the pedestral said film is being put on for being the supposed first black super hero solo film when in the past there were films like that before it. I did that to call out the ridiculous criticism that critics on RT adore it because of the fact its a first, when there have been black super hero movies in the past that didn’t received the same amount of praise (Steel, which is technically the first).

I think you misinterpreted my comment greatly.

[up]x3 Nah, he is busy figuring out why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch to bother with that.

edited 6th Feb '18 8:01:18 PM by BigK1337

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#79995: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:14:44 PM

Needs heart-shaped-herb-shaped marshmallows.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79996: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:51:26 PM

Question: what is good, bad, and average on a rating scale? When the scale is out of 5, 3 being average is obvious. When the scale is out of 4, is 2.5 average? What about out of 10? 5 makes sense for an average but I know lots of people grade movies like schools, with 70 out of 100 being average. That system feels cynical to me because it leaves way too much of a range for bad movies and not enough room for a range of good ones. I've always preferred rating films out of 10, with 5 being average and negative numbers going down to -5 reserved for So Bad, It's Good films.

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#79997: Feb 6th 2018 at 8:55:06 PM

Out of 10, 1-3 bad/good. 4-6 average. 7-10 good/bad. Depending on if it's going up or down. To my mind anyway. I don't know if there's an accepted standard.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#79998: Feb 6th 2018 at 9:07:23 PM

Here's my system: -5: So Bad, It's Good gold, -4: So Bad, It's Good silver, -3: So Bad, It's Good bronze, -2: So Bad, It's Good, -1: So Bad, It's Good from a certain point of view, 0: No redeeming qualities whatsoever, 1: Atrocious, 2: Awful, 3: Bad, 4: Below average, 5: Average, 6: Above average, 7: Good, 8: Great, 9: Fantastic, 10: Perfection

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79999: Feb 7th 2018 at 1:30:44 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] I guess I did....sorry.

64 reviews, still 100% and an average of 8.6 - that is honestly impressive! (and now I am even more curious who will be the first to break the streak, if only out of the believe that the movies isn't THAT good).

Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Ramen Fairy
#80000: Feb 7th 2018 at 5:59:00 AM

[up] My guess is either Armond White or A. O. Scott. Probably the former.

Peace is the only battle worth waging.

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