Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Yeah, I got that. I meant: are fish the ones who are laughing now?
Critical consensus is up:
50 Reviews counted, 50 fresh.
edited 6th Feb '18 10:57:23 AM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."Regarding Falcon's coolness: I think the costume upgrade helps a lot. I know a lot of people get down on comic book movies foregoing the spandex, but Falcon's body armor and flightsuit look way cooler than his red and white wingsuit from the comics. In action movies, that visual aesthetic goes a long way towards selling a character on the big screen. Seeing a character in motion should make you excited that something awesome is about to happen, not laughing at how stupid he looks in his leotard.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.They always start off really high then drop down with time. The question is, who will be the first rotten review? And how much inevitable harassment will they receive over it from the MCU's Fan Dumb?
On the subject of Falcon, I do think he's one of the biggest success stories in the MCU translating a kind of campy superhero and powerset into something very viable within the real world. The decision to make him an ex-paramedic turned veteran counselor who bonds with Cap over their shared war experiences and goodness of their hearts was a stroke of brilliance.
edited 6th Feb '18 12:18:30 PM by AlleyOop
Usually the bad review drops around 30 reviewers though, and there are 51 now. Not that I am THAT surprised, I mean, there is no denying that the cultural meaning of the movie might push the score a little bit. BUT what really encourages me at this point is the actual score average. 8.6 our of 10? Wow, that's impressive. Looking at the reviews there are a lot 5 out of 5 or 4,5 out of 5 ratings. This is clearly not a case of the reviewers giving the movie a pass, they really seemed to like it on top of everything else which is riding on it.
The quote from the Indie Wire Review is a little bit salty, though:
"You believe in T'Challa, you believe in Wakanda, and you believe - maybe for the first time - that the MCU actually matters."
Well, certainly not the first time for me.
Re Falcon vs Aquaman: I always felt that Birds was a way more terrifying movie than Jaws because nobody is forcing me to go to swim where a shark is out for blood, but it is way more difficult to escape birds!
I also never noticed that Falcon and Ant-man actually don't share the screen in the scene in Ant-man. And I just watched it because of my write-up for Yellowjacket.
I think the idea is that critics (and audiences as well) are more willing to overlook/underplay flaws that would normally drag any other movie's "score" (by which I mean whether it's just a competently made "good enough" movie or a genuinely great movie possessed of few if any negative points about it) down by a more significant degree if the movie represents something socially big/important.
That's not a huge problem like it would be if they were trying to say that a bad movie were good, but it does feel a little disingenuous to think that a movie is being given praise/denied proper criticism of potential weakpoints, when the movie's cultural impact should be judged separate from the actual quality of the movie.
Obviously, that's easier said than done, and I'm not saying that is the case for Black Panther (especially since I haven't seen it, am looking forward to it immensely, and genuinely think it's going to be as great as people are saying), but I think it's worth noting that the potential for that phenomenon is there and I'd argue has happened before with Wonder Woman (which I liked, but definitely felt overhyped to me).
edited 6th Feb '18 1:06:24 PM by Khfan429
It's not specifically because it has a black Superhero, it is because of the kind of buzz a movie gets. Critics are humans like everyone else, and if a movie gets a lot of positive buzz early on (no matter WHAT the reason for said buzz is), they might be more inclined to be more forgiving towards it....granted, sometimes too much positive buzz can lead to them being overly critical, but who wants to be the a-hole who nitpicks a movie so many people WANT to succeed?
But, like I said, the high rating indicate that they really liked it more than they being particular forgiving.
I am kind of curious who will send the first negative review.
Honestly my expectations for Black Panther being good is mostly because it's had a dream team lined up for it from the beginning. Couldn't think of a more appropriate choice of director, the screenwriter and cinematographer have strong credentials, the MCU already has a strong costuming division and the ones for this film are going out of their way to illustrate that they've Shown Their Work, and it's got an All-Star Cast. And everything about the shooting seems to have gone well. No indications or even rumors of any kind of backroom drama or Executive Meddling. Marvel clearly made sure that they pushed out a high-quality film and they have a ton of confidence in it to be releasing impressions so early. I'd have been shocked if this film doesn't do as well as it would.
Note that I haven't said a single thing about race in that earlier paragraph, because I don't need to.
edited 6th Feb '18 1:19:28 PM by AlleyOop
![]()
![]()
![]()
Except that's not the assumption at all. Do I really need to say the exact same thing I just said again, because to break it down:
"Good" and "great" are not the same thing. The argument is not that Black Panther and Wonder Woman only got "good" reviews because of the cultural/social impact (in fact that argument literally can't be made for Black Panther because most people haven't seen Black Panther yet), or that critics are willing to give bad movies a break because they're trying to make a social point, that's demonstrably and provably false. Point was that, in the same exact way that artsy/intellectual films will sometimes be graded on a curve because the message is seen as more important than the delivery, so too can socially/culturally important films be occasionally graded as better than they actually are because there is a genuine need to prove in the white male dominated system that movies starring and centered around non-white males can be both profitable and well-received. And again, that is not a big problem, and it is very important that more movies like these get made, but it's a phenomenon worth noting, because impact is different from quality.
And to the point, no one makes that argument about Thor the Dark World because Thor the Dark World's scores reflect the appropriate scores for a movie of its type that's made with general competence but with glaring problems that hold it back from greatness.
edited 6th Feb '18 1:30:30 PM by Khfan429
There's an alt-right narrative that always goes around whenever a prominent film starring minorities or women comes about. To certain groups of people, movies like this being well-liked are always the product of a liberal conspiracy to tear down all white men and make them helpless slaves of women and minorities.
By thinking a movie about a black guy is pretty neat. Yeah. Alt-Right conspiracies make as much sense in context as out.
Point is, some groups of people are waist-deep in an asinine culture war that they're all but demanding must be fought, and films like Black Panther are the battlefield.
edited 6th Feb '18 1:34:38 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

edited 6th Feb '18 10:40:22 AM by Beatman1