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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#79951: Feb 6th 2018 at 10:39:36 AM

[up][up][up]Talking to birds vs talking to fish.

[up][up]Still early. I’m expecting some course correction in a few hours, but that explains why Marvel wanted to release the reviews so soon.

edited 6th Feb '18 10:40:22 AM by Beatman1

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#79954: Feb 6th 2018 at 10:57:11 AM

Critical consensus is up:

Black Panther elevates superhero cinema to thrilling new heights while telling one of the MCU's most absorbing stories — and introducing some of its most fully realized characters.

50 Reviews counted, 50 fresh.

edited 6th Feb '18 10:57:23 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#79955: Feb 6th 2018 at 10:58:08 AM

Who's got the time stone? Maybe we can make it the 16th already.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#79957: Feb 6th 2018 at 11:45:59 AM

Regarding Falcon's coolness: I think the costume upgrade helps a lot. I know a lot of people get down on comic book movies foregoing the spandex, but Falcon's body armor and flightsuit look way cooler than his red and white wingsuit from the comics. In action movies, that visual aesthetic goes a long way towards selling a character on the big screen. Seeing a character in motion should make you excited that something awesome is about to happen, not laughing at how stupid he looks in his leotard.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#79958: Feb 6th 2018 at 11:46:13 AM

They always start off really high then drop down with time. The question is, who will be the first rotten review? And how much inevitable harassment will they receive over it from the MCU's Fan Dumb?

On the subject of Falcon, I do think he's one of the biggest success stories in the MCU translating a kind of campy superhero and powerset into something very viable within the real world. The decision to make him an ex-paramedic turned veteran counselor who bonds with Cap over their shared war experiences and goodness of their hearts was a stroke of brilliance.

edited 6th Feb '18 12:18:30 PM by AlleyOop

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79959: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:07:09 PM

Usually the bad review drops around 30 reviewers though, and there are 51 now. Not that I am THAT surprised, I mean, there is no denying that the cultural meaning of the movie might push the score a little bit. BUT what really encourages me at this point is the actual score average. 8.6 our of 10? Wow, that's impressive. Looking at the reviews there are a lot 5 out of 5 or 4,5 out of 5 ratings. This is clearly not a case of the reviewers giving the movie a pass, they really seemed to like it on top of everything else which is riding on it.

The quote from the Indie Wire Review is a little bit salty, though:

"You believe in T'Challa, you believe in Wakanda, and you believe - maybe for the first time - that the MCU actually matters."

Well, certainly not the first time for me.

Re Falcon vs Aquaman: I always felt that Birds was a way more terrifying movie than Jaws because nobody is forcing me to go to swim where a shark is out for blood, but it is way more difficult to escape birds!

I also never noticed that Falcon and Ant-man actually don't share the screen in the scene in Ant-man. And I just watched it because of my write-up for Yellowjacket.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#79960: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:30:15 PM

Falcon is awesome, Anthony Mackie is talented as hell, and I still love/find it hilarious that his intro in Winter Soldier is basically a love interest arc.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#79961: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:32:01 PM

Yeah. Falcon/Mackie is awesome.

Also, this discussion reminded me of a funny post I saw on the Marvel Studios Reddit where someone speculated that Sam's refusal to move his seat for Bucky was based on an overly literal interpretation of Sharon's "No, you move" speech.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#79962: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:33:39 PM

I really don't know why people persist in this argument that the score will be overinflated because it's a black superhero. Critics pretty routinely give bad or mixed reviews to films starring women or people of color. Shit, Catwoman and Steel were both black superhero movies!

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#79963: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:42:34 PM

They were also both legitimately bad movies if I re-call.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79964: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:49:35 PM

Yeah, and Blade got pretty good response for being a good movie, so I think critics have been pretty decent on this front.

Gonna have to see Black Panther myself first though.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#79965: Feb 6th 2018 at 12:51:44 PM

[up][up]That's my point. If Black Panther were shit, critics would have no problem with classifying it as such.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#79966: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:04:41 PM

I think the idea is that critics (and audiences as well) are more willing to overlook/underplay flaws that would normally drag any other movie's "score" (by which I mean whether it's just a competently made "good enough" movie or a genuinely great movie possessed of few if any negative points about it) down by a more significant degree if the movie represents something socially big/important.

That's not a huge problem like it would be if they were trying to say that a bad movie were good, but it does feel a little disingenuous to think that a movie is being given praise/denied proper criticism of potential weakpoints, when the movie's cultural impact should be judged separate from the actual quality of the movie.

Obviously, that's easier said than done, and I'm not saying that is the case for Black Panther (especially since I haven't seen it, am looking forward to it immensely, and genuinely think it's going to be as great as people are saying), but I think it's worth noting that the potential for that phenomenon is there and I'd argue has happened before with Wonder Woman (which I liked, but definitely felt overhyped to me).

edited 6th Feb '18 1:06:24 PM by Khfan429

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79967: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:07:28 PM

It's not specifically because it has a black Superhero, it is because of the kind of buzz a movie gets. Critics are humans like everyone else, and if a movie gets a lot of positive buzz early on (no matter WHAT the reason for said buzz is), they might be more inclined to be more forgiving towards it....granted, sometimes too much positive buzz can lead to them being overly critical, but who wants to be the a-hole who nitpicks a movie so many people WANT to succeed?

But, like I said, the high rating indicate that they really liked it more than they being particular forgiving.

I am kind of curious who will send the first negative review.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#79968: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:12:50 PM

Do you guys not get the implications of assuming that Black Panther, and before that, Wonder Woman, are only getting good reviews due to some misplace white male guilt?

Also by this logic, why is no one claiming that Thor The Dank World's score is deflated?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#79969: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:18:48 PM

Honestly my expectations for Black Panther being good is mostly because it's had a dream team lined up for it from the beginning. Couldn't think of a more appropriate choice of director, the screenwriter and cinematographer have strong credentials, the MCU already has a strong costuming division and the ones for this film are going out of their way to illustrate that they've Shown Their Work, and it's got an All-Star Cast. And everything about the shooting seems to have gone well. No indications or even rumors of any kind of backroom drama or Executive Meddling. Marvel clearly made sure that they pushed out a high-quality film and they have a ton of confidence in it to be releasing impressions so early. I'd have been shocked if this film doesn't do as well as it would.

Note that I haven't said a single thing about race in that earlier paragraph, because I don't need to.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:19:28 PM by AlleyOop

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79970: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:23:27 PM

[up][up] I actually think Thor TDW score is slightly inflated.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#79971: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:25:42 PM

I think it’s either accurate or slightly low. The movie is a ball of fun. Stupid fun, with a laaaame villain, but still.

Khfan429 Since: Aug, 2009
#79972: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:29:55 PM

[up][up][up][up]Except that's not the assumption at all. Do I really need to say the exact same thing I just said again, because to break it down:

"Good" and "great" are not the same thing. The argument is not that Black Panther and Wonder Woman only got "good" reviews because of the cultural/social impact (in fact that argument literally can't be made for Black Panther because most people haven't seen Black Panther yet), or that critics are willing to give bad movies a break because they're trying to make a social point, that's demonstrably and provably false. Point was that, in the same exact way that artsy/intellectual films will sometimes be graded on a curve because the message is seen as more important than the delivery, so too can socially/culturally important films be occasionally graded as better than they actually are because there is a genuine need to prove in the white male dominated system that movies starring and centered around non-white males can be both profitable and well-received. And again, that is not a big problem, and it is very important that more movies like these get made, but it's a phenomenon worth noting, because impact is different from quality.

And to the point, no one makes that argument about Thor the Dark World because Thor the Dark World's scores reflect the appropriate scores for a movie of its type that's made with general competence but with glaring problems that hold it back from greatness.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:30:30 PM by Khfan429

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#79973: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:32:31 PM

I really don't know why people persist in this argument that the score will be overinflated because it's a black superhero. Critics pretty routinely give bad or mixed reviews to films starring women or people of color. Shit, Catwoman and Steel were both black superhero movies!

There's an alt-right narrative that always goes around whenever a prominent film starring minorities or women comes about. To certain groups of people, movies like this being well-liked are always the product of a liberal conspiracy to tear down all white men and make them helpless slaves of women and minorities.

By thinking a movie about a black guy is pretty neat. Yeah. Alt-Right conspiracies make as much sense in context as out.

Point is, some groups of people are waist-deep in an asinine culture war that they're all but demanding must be fought, and films like Black Panther are the battlefield.

edited 6th Feb '18 1:34:38 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#79974: Feb 6th 2018 at 1:34:48 PM

@Falcon, I damn well need him to talk to birds in the MCU at some point. It's such a cool power and yet?


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