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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#79726: Feb 1st 2018 at 6:56:24 PM

[up][up]I already knew all that. I meant, what was the 'controversial gear'? Why it'd only kick in 'later down the line?' That's what I was asking about.

edited 1st Feb '18 6:56:40 PM by kkhohoho

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#79727: Feb 1st 2018 at 6:56:46 PM

[up]x11 @Big K 1337

Respecting someone’s gender identity is not dependent upon their “good” behavior. Caitlyn Jenner may be an asshole about gay marriage, but that doesn’t justify misgendering her. Don’t be a transphobic jerk.

Adric, you were being a bit cold. Yeah, death is inevitable, and it’s fine for you to feel as you do, but you don’t need to be so blasé about it when others are bummed out.

edited 1st Feb '18 6:58:53 PM by wisewillow

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#79728: Feb 1st 2018 at 6:57:56 PM

@Big K 1337

Okay that is, like, disgustingly transphobic and outright rude.

[up]

Look if I'm coming off a bit cold, I apologize, I legitimately did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings by it.

edited 1st Feb '18 6:59:47 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#79729: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:00:16 PM

[up][up][up] Well, the impression I got was something along the lines of Lee started taking the mick as it went on and at one point he was the writer for something like four books at a time, which obviously meant that the artists were basically creating most of the books while not getting writing credits.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#79730: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:03:17 PM

@BigK1337

Just apologize or move on. You're not helping your case.

[up]That's pretty much it. If you ever see Stan Lee make a guest appearance on a show or movie, they'll usually credit him with creating the Marvel Universe or even the creator of Marvel itself, as seen below.

It's led to some creators feeling like he gets all the credit for stuff they contributed to or outright created without him. I remember Joe Simon's grandkids were kind of upset with the press for the first Captain America movie suggesting or implying Lee created Cap, even though he had nothing to do with the character until the 1960's (he does deserve credit for creating or at least co-creating a lot of Cap's most popular and recognizable supporting characters like Falcon, Peggy and Sharon Carter, Baron Zemo, M.O.D.O.K., Arnim Zola and HYDRA, but Cap himself had already been around since the 40's by the time Lee started writing him).

edited 1st Feb '18 7:07:54 PM by comicwriter

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#79731: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:06:02 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#79732: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:06:34 PM

[up][up][up]

Well, the impression I got was something along the lines of Lee started taking the mick as it went on and at one point he was the writer for something like four books at a time, which obviously meant that the artists were basically creating most of the books while not getting writing credits.

...Ah. I guess I get where you're coming from, but Stan still wrote the things. As in dialogue and text boxes. And that meant a lot. Trust me, you did not want Kirby putting in his patented brand of dialogue, because whenever he got a chance to do so, it was never any good. The story could still be interesting and the art very vivid and colourful, but because his dialogue was so wooden, so were his characters. So Stan filling in the words instead meant the characters were that much more alive than they would have been.

Not sure where that leaves Ditko though. Ditko could still be a decent enough wordsmith, so he could have written his own dialogue and not suffered for it. So I guess there's still a bit of a grey spot there.

edited 1st Feb '18 7:07:36 PM by kkhohoho

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79733: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:11:13 PM

[up]x6 and [up]x5 I apologize for the second comment. My original “my man” comment was meant to taken in a gender neutral comment, similar to when somebody a conversation with somebody with “bro” or “bruh”. The second comment was indeed intentional, not for transphobic reason but rather I got pissed over the context of Adric comment which comes off as disrespectful; and it offended me that Adric wants me to respect their gender identity when said person told me to not be sadden by the given news of an important figure in comics.

But in short, I’m sorry.

[up]x2 Don’t what? I just apologized the moment you posted the comment.

edited 1st Feb '18 7:35:34 PM by BigK1337

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#79734: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:14:03 PM

I'm non-binary, I'm not "he" or "she" but "they". Please address me by "they". Secondly, false equivalence. One was me miscommunicating and unintentionally coming off rudely, something I didn't intend on. The other was blatant transphobia that frankly hurts me. Refusing to properly misgender me out of pettiness is transphobic.

It shouldn't be offensive that I want to be treated like a goddamn person.

edited 1st Feb '18 7:15:02 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#79735: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:16:54 PM

Please get back on topic.

~Big K, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by editing your comment instead of thumping. Further mistakes will not get the same treatment.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79736: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:21:53 PM

[up]x2 I understand that which is why I apologized. What offends me was how you want respect but doesn’t show the same in regards to other people’s feelings about Stan Lee’s health.

I’m glad though he got out of the hospital.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#79737: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:21:54 PM

I’m so so so excited for Black Panther.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79738: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:24:19 PM

[up] Same here. Though considering all the trailers and previews, a bit underwelm that the end boss of the movie will be wearing a suit similar to the hero in the final confrontation. Kind of a rehash like Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Ant Man, and to some extent Captain America The First Avenger and Thor.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#79739: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:24:27 PM

So Captain Marvel's costume looks really green, huh?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#79740: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:25:09 PM

Before Stan Lee started 'writing' like ten books, I find it wholly believable that he deserves the co-creator credit attributed to him.

Jack Kirby did say later on in his life that Lee didn't create a thing but thats different from how he described the partnership before and he was really angry at the time.

There's a kind of energy in early Marvel that's consistent with other stuff Lee has done. A kind of frenetic 'no ideas are bad' that evidently inspired the What If? line.

He also kept acting the co-creator even as he allowed Kirby and Ditko and others to take on more of the writing responsibilities (Ditko evidently stopped showing up to work at some point and just started doing whatever stories he wanted with Stan just wordsing the finished pages) and even beyond to the point where he basically became a living mascot whose main contribution to Marvel was existing and accepting a paycheck so marvel could put 'presented by Stan Lee' on the first page of comics.

Smilin' Stan was an invention. But his contributions may be overstated but they're not incidental.

Edit: I took too long to write this.

I think the really green Carol outfit is supposed to hearken to Mar-Vell's first costume.

edited 1st Feb '18 7:26:02 PM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79741: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:29:59 PM

[up] Pretty much . . . well on both Stan Lee’s credit involvement in writing credit (mostly the dialogue) and CM green costume.

Kind of wish there was some white in that color scheme. Or am I thinking too much of Mar-Vell . . . that again that’s standard issue Kree captain color scheme.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#79742: Feb 1st 2018 at 7:56:02 PM

Comic Book movies won't be the same without Stan cameos...

Just Makima.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#79743: Feb 1st 2018 at 8:29:37 PM

[up][up][up]Oh definitely. I think it's less the idea that Stan is a lazy liar and more that people feel he got an inordinate amount of attention when compared to his peers and employees. I mean, they gave him a cameo in Deadpool even though I'm pretty sure there isn't a single character in the movie he actually had a hand in creating (though I assume it was more parodying the concept of Stan Lee cameos period).

Christopher Priest went to the premier of Black Panther and while he really enjoyed it, he said on his blog he felt that it was kind of bullshit that they didn't also give a cameo to someone like Don McGregor, even though he is the one who actually created Killmonger and a large chunk of T'Challa's supporting cast, and that the movie itself draws heavily from a storyline he wrote. And of course the Joe Simon incident I mentioned previously.

[up]I wonder if they will try to CGI him in.

edited 1st Feb '18 8:30:33 PM by comicwriter

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79744: Feb 1st 2018 at 8:40:26 PM

[up] Yeah, his cameo scene in Deadpool was definitely a parody of Stan Lee’s cameo in many Marvel Works. It was even lampshaded in the credits as “A Gratuitous Cameo”. Plus I think they rather have him than, say, Rob Liefeld . . . wait, he did made a cameo. Fuck! Over Fabian Nicieza!?!

He better appear in Deadpool 2, since that film will most likely be inspired by his time writing for Cable & Deadpool.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#79745: Feb 1st 2018 at 9:45:04 PM

It might not have been a deliberate scheduling choice, and I'm probably a weirdo for noticing or caring, but I feel distinctly....unimpressed that the Black Panther movie is being released during Black History Month. (Since we just had a big spate of hurt feelings, I feel the need to state for the record that I am a black woman, and not some whiney...person being butthurt about not being the target demographic). Like, really? Just make an awesome movie; don't waste your time on dumb marketing stunts.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#79746: Feb 1st 2018 at 9:47:09 PM

I think it got pushed back because of Spider-Man: Homecoming. And then they decided to go for the winter dead zone. I suspect/hope the Black History month angle was a coincidence.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#79747: Feb 1st 2018 at 9:55:20 PM

I’m black too, but think the marketing for the movie is actually clever in hindsight. While I only care about if the movie is going to be awesome or not (which it looks like it will), I do want it to succeed at making a lot of money; and exploiting a month dedicated to Black History with a character who is often consider the first black super hero is a good move.

At least they are exploiting a season, unlike Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 which should of really had its film released in June during Father’s Day.

This kind of makes Deadpool the only superhero movie I know of that actually appropriately took advantage of a season (Valentine’s Day, and its surprisingly a good romance movie).

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#79748: Feb 1st 2018 at 10:25:59 PM

Yeah, originally Black Panther was supposed to have Thor Ragnarok's slot as the big fall blockbuster but Spider-Man Homecoming pushed every movie past Dr. Strange up by a slot and it just kind of happened by coincidence that they chose February for BP, instead of March. I don't think it was intentional. It ended up working out for Avengers Infinity War though, as they usually have some kind of big spectacle film in May.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#79749: Feb 2nd 2018 at 1:47:10 AM

I don't think that it was an accident. The pushing up was, but there were a few other options than February.

Re: Stan Lee I guess we will have to accept that he won't be with us that much longer. He is old, and people who are as long and happily married as he was do have the tendency to really go downhill once the partner dies. But it would be nice if he were living long enough to see phase 3 conclude and most of the Marvel rights being back where they belong. Even nicer would be if he gets to see a good Fantastic 4 movie, but, well, that might be expecting a little bit too much.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#79750: Feb 2nd 2018 at 3:25:50 AM

For the record, Stan Lee is out of the hospital and claims he is "doing great. Looking for some trouble to get into."

What do we say to the god of death?

Not Stan Lee you piece of shit.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

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