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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78776: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:57:03 PM

Oh yeah, they say she's Celtic but barely anything Celtic is part of her character. It's a blatant Informed Attribute.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78777: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:11:10 PM

[up] I think the point was to clarify how old she actually is.

Anyway, the thing with Doctor Strange is that I am actually not bothered with what is in the movie, but mostly with the order of what is in the movie. I think it was a huge mistake to start the movie with the Ancient one fight. Marvel does this often, starting with a big action set-piece, but in this case it robbed the audience from exploring the world from Doctor Strange's perspective. Also, time-line issues. It doesn't make much sense to me that Casilius (or however he is called) steals what he needs and then waits nearly a year to actually use it. Not to mention that this leads to Doctor Strange never encountering him before the attack.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78778: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:13:25 PM

How is that supposed to clarify her age? It's just in a dumb little info dump Mordo gives and they do nothing with it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#78779: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:18:38 PM

Calling her Celtic was a way of showing her age because nobody is called Celtic anymore.

If they had called her English, or Welsh, or Scottish, that all would have sounded much more modern.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78780: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:20:06 PM

[up]x2 and [up] It kind of does give us a good idea of how long she have served as Earth’s Sorceror Supreme and give us a good idea as to why she drew powers from the dark dimension to stay young and alive to combat against Doormommew’s forces from taking over the main realm.

edited 6th Jan '18 3:20:38 PM by BigK1337

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78781: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:20:47 PM

Yeah. Besides that, I didn't say that the Ancient One was British. I said that Swinton was.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78782: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:33:02 PM

Celtic doesn't necessarily mean ancient, there's a good deal of Celtic culture in parts of the UK and Ireland. Maybe I personally don't associate it to be old but the Ancient One being Celtic is still a blatant Informed Attribute anyways because they do nothing with it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#78783: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:36:17 PM

Oh for sure I agree with that.

I'm just saying it was a handwave for being old because it would be like if she had said she was from Albion.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78784: Jan 6th 2018 at 4:05:05 PM

"If they wanted Tilda Swinton so bad, then they should have changed the setting and/or removed the Asian stuff entirely. Then at least there also wouldn't be this feel of "trying to have your cake and eat it to" permeating throughout the film."

Yep, the asían part of the feel is just a traing montage, once the movie got serious he got back to new York, which make one question why the movie just stay there and that it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78785: Jan 6th 2018 at 6:41:54 PM

Whitewashing is something very valid to get angry about, but Ability over Appearance is also a factor, and Swinton killed it in the role so hard that it negates the whitewashing, to me.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78786: Jan 6th 2018 at 6:46:49 PM

I really don't give a shit about Ability over Appearance if it's used to whitewash a POC. It's taking the complaints and ignoring them by saying "Oh but they acted the role so well, so what's the harm in it?" Still a whitewashed performance.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78787: Jan 6th 2018 at 6:46:52 PM

Not for me. I mean don't get me wrong, she was good (as she usually is). But there was nothing about that character that really necessitated that only she play the role, or that it needed to be a Celtic woman. Especially if, once again, you're going to try and have it both ways and still set it in Asia, keep the Asian trappings, but only have one token Asian guy in a supporting role.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#78788: Jan 6th 2018 at 6:49:04 PM

Ability over Appearance is still dumb though. It's not like there aren't millions of POC actors in the US. Surely some of them must be a good fit for the role.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78789: Jan 6th 2018 at 6:49:04 PM

[up][up][up][up]... yeah, I don’t get that. Because then whitewashing could always be “justified” by any performance that manages more than mediocrity. It’s suggesting Michelle Yeoh or some other Asian actress wouldn’t have killed it, therefore casting a white lady is fine.

edited 6th Jan '18 6:49:42 PM by wisewillow

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78790: Jan 6th 2018 at 6:58:25 PM

Well, it's already happened. It's done with. The character's dead, she's probably not even coming back. In the end, Wong is getting more screentime than her and is a more important character. I don't see the point of getting mad about it after-the-fact when Swinton gave a great performance.

Would I like the Ancient One to be played by an Asian person if/when they introduce a new version of the character, either in the X-Universe or in an MCU reboot? Of course I would, but that's the future, and it can change. But in Dr. Strange, it's not like an Asian actor could've done the role any better with the same material, Tilda performed it about as well as that role could've been performed.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78791: Jan 6th 2018 at 7:02:38 PM

How do you know she performed it as good as it could've been performed? People are still mad about it because it's yet another example of a long string of whitewashing. Yeah, it's been close to two years since the film came out, so what? People are still mad. And who cares if Wong is there, so far he's been doing nothing, has no personality, and it feels like the implication here is "Well there's still one Asian character here, that makes up for whitewashing!"

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78792: Jan 6th 2018 at 7:16:44 PM

The hability of the white actor is here because usually that is the give of why they whitewash in the first place, god of egypt tank hard because aside of white washing the entire cast with white people, most of them were pretty damn awfull in the job(So far, only Set really did something and the protagonist was flat and annoying) making a case of "you are denying good role for minority for....THIS?".

IN the case of tilda I will go with punisher opinion here of "she made a good job...so why she need to be in asian setting in the first place" they should just cut that all and set in new york or going full asian but this awkard mix of the two? nope.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#78793: Jan 6th 2018 at 7:48:09 PM

I can't really think of anything she did in the film that called for huge acting skill or couldn't easily by done by other actors. And I've seen Tilda Swinton in a lot of movies.

XJTordecai Watch the seventh wave Since: Jun, 2013
Watch the seventh wave
#78794: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:03:52 PM

On my first watch of Dr. Strange I thought it was pretty cool and enjoyable. Now months later, thinking over the criticisms brought up in this thread, and how much of what's good in it I could also get from other, better Marvel movies, I think it's just meh. I guess it has its moments, the whole "Dormammu, I've come to bargain" scene is still really cool, but otherwise it's a really middle-of-the-road Iron Man retread but with magic. Hell, even Ant-Man had more going for it in my eyes. I don't violently hate it like some others do, you can like it if you want and all that, but it's not a go-to rewatch for me. Also I guess I gotta dock a few extra points off for the whole Ancient One thing but otherwise enough's been said about that.

On my wave, passing oooooooon
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78795: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:07:15 PM

[up] That’s cool. I agree that it has flaws in the story department and majority of the movie is just a special effect specticle. But overall I still like the movie in spite of its faults. Glad that while now you dislike it, you don’t try to guilt others for liking it. I respect that![tup]

[up]x2 Guess they picked her for the star power considering how the Marvel movies are known for their All-Star Cast.

Hell look at the cast of the upcoming Ant-Man and Wasp. Holy shit! Along with Paul Rudd, Evangeline Lilly, Michael Pena and Michael Douglas returning, they also have Laurence Fishbourn as Bill Foster AND Michelle Phieffer as Janet Van Dynne!

Okay, fuck this current discussion, it is now officially about Ant-Man and The Wasp. Starting with talks about the best Marvel villain being used in the film, Ghost, and the possibility of a spiritual adaption of Armor Wars.

edited 6th Jan '18 8:10:51 PM by BigK1337

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78796: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:07:19 PM

[up][up]Yeah is not the best tilda role, not the worst ether, she is just....well, there.

Also, how much time will happen since CW to IF? I mean if Cap look like having a beard...

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78797: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:11:54 PM

[up] Maybe its in real time, so it has been almost 2 years.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78798: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:38:02 PM

Depending on genetics beards can grow pretty quickly

Also depending on mindset maybe? Adventure and also sadness makes stubble grow

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78799: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:43:26 PM

[up] If we are talking about actual beard growth, it usually take around 4 months to get that full thick stubble of chin hair . . . I am basing this measurements on how fast my own beard grows after getting a full shave. Which is why I assume this movie will take place within 2 years.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78800: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:46:11 PM

I see, one thing Im worry is how this will affect the end of CW, after all whatever issue cap and tony have a hand means little when Thanos is down there, giving infinite bitch slap to everyone.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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