TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#78726: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:23:46 AM

The special effects really are impressive to a lot of casual moviegoers, and that's the reasoning I hear a lot from people like Moviebob. And the Iron Man formula isn't great, but it works for a lot of people. It's just nothing I personally haven't seen before, admittedly in more niche forms of media. But they've been done before. This is the first time it's been portrayed in a way that's easily accessible to masses who are not enthusiasts.

Some critics might've defended the whitewashing, but most of the ones I read either didn't care or they admitted to having problems with it but conceded it's more related to behind-the-scenes issues than reviewing the movie itself.

[down]Also that. It's a technically competent movie in many regards, it's just dry and feels like filler relative to the rest of the MCU stable.

edited 6th Jan '18 11:26:05 AM by AlleyOop

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#78727: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:25:09 AM

All the Rotten Tomatoes rating indicates is how many critics thought a movie was above average in some way. The average rating among professional critics is a 7.3, which in Strange's case probably indicates "not exceptional, but competent and enjoyable".

Also, I think the Iron Man formula is fine, but you need a really strong and compelling protagonist to make it work in your favor. Pretty much every single time Marvel has done something like it since, it's just drawn attention to the fact that they did it better with Tony the first time.

edited 6th Jan '18 11:26:50 AM by Draghinazzo

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78728: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:27:32 AM

After a while the effects just feel like a dancing bear. They're alright but they just distract you with a dazzling show so you don't notice how cookie cutter and bare bones the plot and writing are. It's like Avatar.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78729: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:29:22 AM

Whatever you think about the casting, it has hardly any bearing on the quality of the movie. It is after all not based on a true story but a comic book adaptation.

And I do think that it is thematically very strong, while not particularly overtly about the themes...something I really like, there is nothing I hate more than a movie reciting pseudo-philosophy which sounds smart, but has nothing to say once you think about it. Doctor Strange is problematic on a narrative level, but it does make me think. Between the symbolic use of the watches, his talks with the Ancient one (especially the last one, when she stretches a second because she is still not quite able to let go) and the final battle, there is so much to unpack there.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#78730: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:31:20 AM

[up][up] Well, I still like the film just fine.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#78731: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:32:27 AM

Whatever you think about the casting, it has hardly any bearing on the quality of the movie. It is after all not based on a true story but a comic book adaptation.

The casting might not matter to you personally, but saying it doesn't have a bearing on the quality of the movie flat out isn't really accurate. It being based on a comic book is irrelevant.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#78732: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:32:53 AM

I thought the main theme of Dr. Strange was learning to cope with a physical impairment.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78733: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:37:10 AM

The blatant mighty whitey aspect of the film heavily weighs against it, it's not even just the whitewashing I have a problem with. You can have a technically competently made film but the whitewashing and the entire story of "rich white asshole learned to out-magic everybody" should automatically be strikes against it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#78734: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:38:30 AM

[up][up] It kinda is.

[up]Also Adric...not meaning to be offensive, but your baffled tone of the RT score of Dr Stranger reeks of hypocrisy given that you once called out an user for making similar claims in regards to the score of the polarizing The Last Jedi film.

Next time, be more considerate of your opinion on films.

edited 6th Jan '18 11:38:45 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78735: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:41:17 AM

Could you please not bring up stuff from other threads? Pretty sure that's against the rules.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#78736: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:43:30 AM

[up] OK, but still, my point stands.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78737: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:50:13 AM

A 90% on RT just means that 9 out of 10 reviewers felt that the movie was worth watching. Which it is, if you are into the visuals (love the part with the hands - btw another great symbol in the movie), or the ending, or the actors, or the characters. They all might have given the movie a 6 out of 10, but they still recommended the movie. And I think it is a 6 out of 10 at the very least. There are so many much, much worse movie out there. (honestly, considering some of the high budget movies which got inflicted on us in the last years, the movie already wins just by being properly edited, not using the shaky cam and being bright enough that I can see what is happening on screen...love the warm brown tone it uses, btw).

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78738: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:52:07 AM

Yeah léast not talk about RT right nos and focus on the movie.

Swan: ehhhh stark IS a control freak and perfeccionist, ultron is pretty A metal stright jacket around the world and his comitment to accords is to control what to do, both are arrogant and have a hard time understanding their mistake.

Also is feel weird to said strange learn his lesión when he use the mind store to rewrite time and at best stop dormammu with a trick, it feel is going to back fire on him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78739: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:54:31 AM

Frankly this is just a sign that Rotten Tomatoes is wonky and people are too obsessed with their ratings (myself included, guilty as charged). My main frustration is that the whitewashing didn't even seem to have as big an impact on reviews as it should've. Hell, there were critics trying to defend Swinton's casting, weren't there? I definitely remember shit about that.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78740: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:55:31 AM

[up][up] He isn't a control freak (if he were he would never be able to give Cap the leadership over the Avengers) in the sense I mean. He is obsessed with control in the sense that he wants to control DANGER (meaning he wants to prevent it and protect the world, no matter the cost), he doesn't want to control every aspect in his live, including his own immortality. If anything, Tony has a self-destructive streak....Doctor Strange is the opposite, he wants to control death itself, which is exactly why him giving up in the end and allowing to get killed again and again and again is such a huge thing for him

[up] You mean people are unable to understand what is a pretty straightforward system. RT is fine, it is not the fault of the website that so many people are using it wrong.

edited 6th Jan '18 11:56:23 AM by Swanpride

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#78741: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:56:24 AM

From what I recall, a lot of reviewers acknowledged the casting but didn't say much about it either way. I don't think we're at a point where most reviewers are going to dock points from a technically competent or even good movie just because of whitewashing or mighty whitey aspects.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78742: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:56:45 AM

[up][up]because that dosent lean the movie is good or bad, just that there is a problemátic element there.

And after all the drama in the DC thread for RT, going now will be pointless.

edited 6th Jan '18 11:57:03 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78743: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:58:05 AM

Racist bullshit should heavily weigh against movies, this one included.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#78744: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:59:34 AM

[up] If that was the case, then the score would have gone down.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78745: Jan 6th 2018 at 12:00:29 PM

You can hardly argue with Tilda Swinton being the perfect fit for the kind of role they went for. And, as was pointed out multiple times before, it was a no-win situation. If they had cast an old Asian the complain would have been "naturally the old Asian proofs to be unworthy of the power he wields".

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78746: Jan 6th 2018 at 12:02:08 PM

And a lot of Asians on here have said otherwise.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78747: Jan 6th 2018 at 12:03:52 PM

[up][up][up][up]it depend how you put it actually, there is some thing that weight more than others and tilda as rhe ancient one didnt hurt so much, specially consider the ancient one is your vague ancient asían master.

Swan: really....they could just cut the asían part because it didnt do anything for the plot, just said there is a internacional comunity of mágic user and that the ancient one is charge of the american part and focus the rest of the movie in new York.

There, problem solve.

edited 6th Jan '18 12:04:08 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#78748: Jan 6th 2018 at 12:03:53 PM

I really don't think going through this conversation again is going to be productive, but you don't get a free-pass even in a "no-win" situation. It's been argued multiple times that out of all their options, what they went with was probably the worst one.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78749: Jan 6th 2018 at 12:08:25 PM

[up][up][up] See, that is the thing with hypotheticals. We are talking about a character which has been accused for decades to be a questionable stereotype, so I go with the reaction the comic book character often got from Asians and not with what they claim they would have done.

edited 6th Jan '18 12:08:44 PM by Swanpride

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#78750: Jan 6th 2018 at 12:08:34 PM

I think it's worth pointing out that Doctor Strange's RT score may be the exception to the rule; most whitewashed films in the past few years (Gods of Egypt, Aloha, Exodus, Ghost in the Shell, etc) have tended to be poorly reviewed and box office bombs. This film didn't fail really because Marvel put in enough money to making sure it wasn't really "bad", even if that doesn't make it "good".

But yeah, Tilda should not have been cast. There were plenty of less offensive and more creative ways to circumvent the Ancient One as a stereotype. Doing the Ben Kingsley Mandarin treatment. Having Tilda be Celtic-themed instead of "Oriental themed". Stereotypes are by essence flat characters, and giving the Ancient One more moral ambiguity and backstory was a good way to flesh out the character that they didn't take advantage of enough.


Total posts: 186,763
Top