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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78701: Jan 5th 2018 at 4:44:40 PM

I'd watch it.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78702: Jan 5th 2018 at 4:51:27 PM

So would the movie be called Valkyries or, more appropriately, Lady Liberators?

If the latter then also add Black Widow, Wasp and Scarlet Witch.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78703: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:02:42 PM

He could send her to look for Sif and other Asgardians who weren't around when their world blew up. Which, btw, would also be a great opportunity to explore the nine realms a little bit more.

It would be fun to pair her with an earthbound hero in order to have someone who can ask question during their travel. Black Widow doesn't make much sense in this context, neither does the Wasp....mmm...we really need more powered heroines. Perhaps she could take Scarlet Witch with her, just to get her away from earth for a while.....

edited 5th Jan '18 6:05:23 PM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78704: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:03:50 PM

Okay as long as there's some time given to the idea of what Asgard will be now and what Valkyrie will be now too

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78705: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:14:49 PM

Could even justify the all female team by having the Enchantress as the villain. And they could nod to Valkyrie being bisexual at some point (of course she resists because pfft, Valkyrie has 2,000 years on the Enchantress, please).

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#78706: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:32:49 PM

Independently of representational issues, I think if Black Widow were to have a movie featured around her it would make more sense for it to be a team/ensemble movie like the GOTG than a strictly solo movie, for reasons others have given above and because unless it's strictly a spy movie her power set and characterization doesn't make for good solo focus. The ambiguity is a big part of what makes her interesting in the MCU.

Valkyrie on the other hand, as an Asgardian elite warrior with a long and colorful history, has lots of initiative to spin a solo film off of. Likewise as other people are also saying, King Thor can still show up as some kind of Big Good or Mission Control since his main arc is over, but Ragnarok rescued him for enough people that they'd want to see him in more stuff. And Valkyrie's personality is boisterous and comedic enough when she needs to be that she can command the viewer's attention as a solo protagonist as well.

edited 5th Jan '18 6:35:01 PM by AlleyOop

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78707: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:45:52 PM

[up] Yes, but I really want this Spy movie. Just like I want to see a few other genres down the line. Like a proper horror movie or a Space Western. Or a treasure hunt. Or another heist movie which focusses more on the Con than the break-in.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#78708: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:48:30 PM

Winter Soldier was very espionage thriller. They got Robert 'Three Days of the Condor' Redford.

And while it is not part of the MCU, New Mutants is full superhero horror.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78709: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:52:53 PM

[up] As I pointed out already, a Political Thriller is not the same as a classic Spy movie. Which is why they hired Robert Redford and not Sean Connery as the villain.

Honestly, they should have used the period James Bond was/is on hiatus. But I guess Kingsmen got there first...

edited 5th Jan '18 6:53:54 PM by Swanpride

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#78710: Jan 5th 2018 at 6:55:59 PM

Well, also, Sean Connery is retired.

But seriously, Winter Soldier feels very much like a spy movie from the 70s that just has a few superheroes in it.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78711: Jan 5th 2018 at 8:02:22 PM

[up]Kinda, winter Soldier is jason bourne but with superhéro...which I feel it work even better because it manage to fit a lot of whose weird bullshit you see in action films without shattering disbelief.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#78712: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:57:19 AM

• Crystal (they really drop the ball on Inhumans by not having her be the main character, as well as other things they droped)

Given how toxic the Inhuman Royal family has become (not just on t.v but in the comics) I doubt this could happen.

• She Hulk (which also doubles as a Hulk movie as we need more of those)
This could work but aren’t there rights issues with Universal Studios?

• Scarlet Witch and Vision (Bocaj made a good suggestion with that, can expand upon it with the use of Enchantress as the villain)

I think the fact they have to borrow a villain from Thor is kind of proof this may not work.

• Sersi (cause we might as well introduce the Eternals at some point)
Don't know much about these guys so no comment.

• Spider-Woman (because she is another Marvel heroine whose name begin with S . . . wait, she might not work since Hydra is gone)
You could just pick the one that doesn’t work for Hydra. Or use Jessica’s non Hydra adventures.

• Storm (because Marvel got the rights to X-Men again . . . as long as they don’t have her be married to Black Panther).
Not being married to Black Panther didn’t save her solo

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78713: Jan 6th 2018 at 4:50:21 AM

Speaking of marriage, looks like we'll get the first wedding in the MCU...unless Tony and Pepper already got there off-screen.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78714: Jan 6th 2018 at 5:30:38 AM

Fun fact: there was a Silver Age Spider-Man comic where Black Widow, after leaving the Avengers, went to New York to learn the secret of Spider-Man's tricks and improve herself. She attacks him out of the blue and they fight for a bit. Spider-Man has the flu at the time, so Black Widow completely kicks his ass until he breaks out of her wire, at which point she abruptly gives up and runs away, apparently just then learning about his super-strength. She decides it was wrong to try and copy Spidey's shtick, and she should use her own abilities to forge her own path forward.

Not really relevant to any conversations, I just like it when other people mention wacky shit from the comics and I've always wanted to join in on that.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78715: Jan 6th 2018 at 8:58:10 AM

I'd have thought that we'd be passed going "well so and so cannot work as a movie" when it comes to Marvel? After GOTG, and Ant Man, and Dr. Strange, etc, the idea that BW or Valkyrie "cannot work" seems, less than convincing.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78716: Jan 6th 2018 at 10:07:33 AM

Very good point. I'm personally quite interested in the proposed ensemble film involving Gamora, Valkyrie, and Sif (and possibly other female characters) and also think that almost all of those characters could also carry a solo film.

I am a bit unsure with Black Widow though. It might be because I don't find Scarlet Johansen the greatest actress, but it's also that the character is framed as being somewhat unknowable and only putting on a fake personality/personalities. Granted, you could (and should) say the same of James Bond, Batman, and The Man With No Name. But because of this aspect, I see her as different from someone like Bucky who used to have an identity and is hopefully slowly getting it back or like Jessica Drew (if you are using the Hydra backstory) or Gamora who have a similar backstory as Black Widow, but have a defined identity in the present.

Speaking of Jessica Drew, I was pondering the idea of her being played by Jameela Jamil from The Good Place

edited 6th Jan '18 10:09:27 AM by Hodor2

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78717: Jan 6th 2018 at 10:10:46 AM

Tessa Thompson walked into Thor: Ragnarok like a goddamn queen walking into a throne room. The charisma, my god. I would watch an entire movie where nothing happens except Valkyrie picking fights in bars.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78718: Jan 6th 2018 at 10:27:00 AM

[up][up][up]Less that it couldn’t work and more that I don’t expect it to happen. Marvel Studios seems to put characters on tiers (not unlike the comics) for the reasons I’d mentioned. There seems to be a pretty clear delineation between the solo characters marvel thinks can carry a movie (those with the requisite supporting casts and rogues) and those like Falcon, Vision, Scarlet Witch and War Machine, who are great but work better as part of an ensemble.

I’d actually love to see Valkyrie front something, I just think it’s infinitely more likely it’d be a team movie of some kind rather than a solo spin-off.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78720: Jan 6th 2018 at 10:33:58 AM

[up][up]I find that weird consider some movies: antman is genéric and most focus on hank and hope and Doctor strange is even more than genéric, Also Imfeel thor so far relies more on other chararer than is own.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78721: Jan 6th 2018 at 10:58:32 AM

Doctor Strange has some script problems, but I wouldn't call it generic. Thematically it is a very strong movie.

And Antman, well, I admit I kind of give it a pass because it is obvious that two different visions are competing with each other in the movie. Plus, Baskin Robins always finds out.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78722: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:02:36 AM

[up]themstic? Yeah bu overall it show the same issues Many origin story have and like other said...is just Tony stark all over again.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78723: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:07:02 AM

[up] It's not. You would really have to look at the surface level to believe that those two characters are in any way similar. Tony's problem was a combination of self-loathing and an unwillingness to accept responsibility for, well, pretty much everything. He starts to take responsibility, but he never quite looses the self-loathing.

Doctor Strange on the other hand is a control freak and perfectionist. He can't stand to be less than the best. And he never quite looses this drive, either, but at the end of the day he accepts that there are things he can't and shouldn't try to control (like time) and the power of self-sacrifice. He could become a famed doctor again, but he gives it up in order to protect the world from the shadow.

Those are two different characters and two different arcs.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#78724: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:09:35 AM

I didn't think Doctor Strange was all that strong in its themes, besides the retreaded not-Tony Stark aspects, which it did sufficiently, but which I'm not particularly interested in seeing rehashed again.

"Time" was the closest thing the movie had to any kind of narrative artistry, but it still felt more like a motif, something more surface level, than a proper core theme. Shame because if the script was more competent it would've been a very compelling idea to wrap the story around. More emphasis on things like trying to redo your life over, wasting your time and skills away, whether it's "too late" to do things, topics like that would've made the story feel a lot richer and actually thought-provoking than the generic New Age mumbo jumbo. The scene of the Ancient One's passing and her talk about her lack of future was the only emotionally compelling dialogue and even then they didn't make me care enough about her beforehand for it to have more impact.

edited 6th Jan '18 11:16:26 AM by AlleyOop

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78725: Jan 6th 2018 at 11:21:03 AM

I mean if by theme you mean "Iron Man retread with boring SFX and blatant racism" then sure, it's got strong themes.

How did that movie get a 90-something on Rotten Tomatoes again? Didn't a lot of critics keep trying to defend the whitewashing?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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