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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78676: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:14:21 PM

[up] Or "Almost got him" one of the most popular of the Batman TAS episodes (though I don't think that it would work as a movie).

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78677: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:20:00 PM

[up][up][up]The Sting and The Shawshank Redemption are two of my favorite movies, so fair enough.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78678: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:28:26 PM

I've seen Atomic Blonde (it was good BTW). Actually I own it.

But perhaps make Natasha not quite so cold and closed off as Charlize Theron's character was there.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78679: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:32:18 PM

[up][up] Mine too. Also love The Great Escape which actually might be a good basic idea for a Superhero too at one point along the line. If they do secret invasion at one point, they could do a while movie just about how the heroes which got replaced manage to escape from a Scrull prison.

[up] Natasha has a vulnerable side, which has been beautifully explored in The Winter Soldier, too.

edited 5th Jan '18 12:33:05 PM by Swanpride

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78680: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:34:39 PM

One of the little things that I liked in AOU as well was her apparently being close enough to Hawkeye's family that his kids call her "Aunt Nat," and how she reacts to hearing that.

It was cute.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78681: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:36:54 PM

I'll need to check out Atomic Blonde at some point, though I've already got quite a hefty backlog of must-see films to get through.

In this theoretical Black Widow spy thriller movie, who would be her supporting cast? She'd need somebody around to occupy the audience's attention while she's setting sneaky plans into motion off-screen.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78682: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:46:24 PM

[up] As I said already, Maria Hill and Sharon Carter, both characters which are already established to be competent spies and could provide all kind of back-up without outshining Black Widow (I wouldn't put a powered character at her side because, well, nobody should do her fights for her).

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#78683: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:06:53 PM

Those could work.

Hell, for Maria Hill, maybe they could even do something similar to the scrapped framing device they were going to use in the first Avengers film, with Hill reporting to the World Council on just what the hell happened.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78684: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:55:04 PM

Nick Fury as well obviously. And of course Winter Soldier is an option to. Also a few new characters "from her past," and all that.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78685: Jan 5th 2018 at 2:35:07 PM

Unpopular opinion (but I think its said somewhere on this board): I don’t think Black Widow (or Valkyrie for that matter) should get their own solo movies. To me they work best as supporting characters to another hero’s story or main characters in a team bo- er, I mean movie. Hell, their characters weren’t really planned out to be solo characters that can carry out a whole film (which was kind of why the Black Widow solo comics weren’t as fondly remember as her time in other books like Avengers, Daredevil, Captain America and even Champions). The same can be said for their male contemporaries Hawkeye, Falcon and Vision as I enjoy them in their current roles but don’t want a full blown solo movie based around them as I don’t think they can carry a film on their own.

But if there was a theoretical Black Widow movie, it will most likely be a prequel and, for an interesting change of pace, have BW as the villain protagonist. Though we all know the ending of the movie will have Hawkeye convincing her to turn face:

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78686: Jan 5th 2018 at 2:38:29 PM

Why solo when you can duo? Scarlet Witch and the Vision movie

Provided he survives forehead rip and tear

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78687: Jan 5th 2018 at 2:46:00 PM

[up] . . . Fuck, you’re right. As long as the movie makes Enchantress the main villain. I seriously wanted to see the Enchantress in a Marvel movie.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78688: Jan 5th 2018 at 2:48:31 PM

[up][up][up] A prequel would be boring. Why go backwards with her character?

Btw, the reason why I am such a staunch advocate for a Black Widow movie is not because I want a female character as leas. Well, I do, but it needs to make sense. With Valkyrie, I currently have no idea what she could do in terms of a team up, though some good idea might surface down the line. The reason I want a Black Widow movie is mostly because Marvel hasn't done a straightforward Spy movie so far, and of all the possible genres they could explore, this one is one of the most obvious, and Black Widow would be the logical lead in a movie like this.

At this point I actually think less about "which character could do what" and more along the line of "what genres I would like to see and how can they fit into the MCU".

edited 5th Jan '18 2:48:52 PM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78689: Jan 5th 2018 at 2:56:16 PM

It is usually easier to make a solo movie about a solo character instead of a team player because solo characters tend to have enough world building done to work with. People like Iron Man, Thor, Cap and Hulk, or the more recent solo heroes like Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Captain Marvel have their own supporting casts, love interests and rogues galleries to draw from, as well as many solo stories that can be mined for plot ideas.

By contrast, someone like Vision, Scarlet Witch, Valkyrie, or even any of the Guardians would be tougher to build a movie around because they don’t really have that.

Ant-Man has so far been the exception, but his movie sort of highlights this. He doesn’t really have a rogues gallery or supporting cast other than his daughter and ex-wife, so most of the characters in the movie are canon foreigners or other Marvel characters with little relation to Scott in the comics. Hell, the villains of the sequel, Ghost and Sonny Burch, are both Iron Man villains in the comics.

edited 5th Jan '18 2:57:15 PM by comicwriter

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78690: Jan 5th 2018 at 2:58:30 PM

I don’t think Black Widow (or Valkyrie for that matter) should get their own solo movies. To me they work best as supporting characters to another hero’s story or main characters in a team bo- er, I mean movie. Hell, their characters weren’t really planned out to be solo characters that can carry out a whole film

On the one hand, you kind of have a valid point. On the other hand, almost every female marvel character was originally a supporting character or a distaff counterpart. So if we want a female lead movie (there’s now what, 18 male-lead Marvel movies, and a few more before Captain Marvel), creativity is needed.

Just to repeat- there will be TWENTY male-led MCU movies before a SINGLE female lead. I’m so damn tired of waiting. We could have had a Wasp movie instead of Ant-Man. We could have had a Black Widow movie at some point. We could have had a female-lead movie instead of Doctor Strange. But noooo.....

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78691: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:00:01 PM

This isn't necessarily a bad thing though, is it? It is after all unlikely that we'll get another Ironman movie. So why not use villains elsewhere?

At the end of the day, it is all a matter of a good script.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78692: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:02:42 PM

[up]x4 Always thought Winter Soldier was the MCU’s spy movie; but than again you said straightfoward spy movie and WS is technically a political thriller (don’t know the difference between the two genres).

Anyway I am not sure how a solo Black Widow spy movie would work in the current progression of Marvel films seeing how she pretty much abaddoned her alligiance to many government agencies and is currently a fugitive. I suggested a prequel as that would be a good way to obtain such a movie and some fans like to know the detail of her backstories. It worked for X-Men First Class which was a prequel/reboot to the X-Men series (and is somehow is defined as a spy film by the director of the movie).

[up]x2 Since you mentioned female characters who spun off from male heroes, that is pretty much the main reason why Carol is the title Captain Marvel over Mar-Vell. I like the latter, but compare to his female spin off he doesn’t really have much to carry his own movie. He, ironically, seems to be better used as a supporting character to Carol who definitely can carry out a film on her own.

And as for other female Marvel characters who could carry out a solo movie on their own:

  • Crystal (they really drop the ball on Inhumans by not having her be the main character, as well as other things they droped)
  • She Hulk (which also doubles as a Hulk movie as we need more of those)
  • Scarlet Witch and Vision (Bocaj made a good suggestion with that, can expand upon it with the use of Enchantress as the villain)
  • Sersi (cause we might as well introduce the Eternals at some point)
  • Spider-Woman (because she is another Marvel heroine whose name begin with S . . . wait, she might not work since Hydra is gone)
  • Storm (because Marvel got the rights to X-Men again . . . as long as they don’t have her be married to Black Panther).

edited 5th Jan '18 3:17:40 PM by BigK1337

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78693: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:06:26 PM

Btw, Black Widow and Hawkeye are kind of the exceptions.

Despite never really working out as solo characters (at least until recently in Hawkeye’s case), they have their own respective villains and supporting casts. Hawkeye has some pretty good villains in Swordsman and Trick Shot, while Black Widow has Yelena and a whole host of Russian baddies.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78694: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:12:14 PM

[up][up] Yep, political thriller, not quite the same thing.

I can think of a couple of ways Natasha's spy abilities can become relevant. For starters the suggestion I already made "the search for Nick Fury" (provided that he doesn't turn up in present day anytime soon). If they do a secret invasion storyline you can easily do a whole movie about Black Widow trying to figure out who has been replaced and who not - or a movie about her figuring out that some of her friends have been replaced in the first place. Though than we would end up more in horror movie territory. If they do something entirely different you can still do a story about Black Widow being on some sort of secret mission in order to look into something particular strange which is going on, perhaps on behalf of Ch'talla. Hell, you could even do a movie about her going to search for her "true identity", looking for clues where she actually came from before the Red Room got her.

BigK1337 Since: Jun, 2012
#78695: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:19:29 PM

[up]x2 What, like her ex husband Red Guardian?

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#78696: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:40:08 PM

The Marvel Now! Black Widow comic was really good (minus some casual racism in the 2nd volume.) It’s told as a multitude of her missions, with an overarching goal of repaying her victims from her time as a Soviet, donating them the money she earns.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78697: Jan 5th 2018 at 3:55:30 PM

[up] That sounds good, too.

The thing is, a Black Widow movie doesn't have to be a gigantic "we need to rescue the earth" affair. It could be a smaller but still interesting adventure. They could even lower the budget a little bit to minimize the risk, since she doesn't need those huge special effects.

edited 5th Jan '18 3:56:36 PM by Swanpride

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78698: Jan 5th 2018 at 4:08:02 PM

I think that even if Valkyrie doesn't have as much solo material you could do interesting things with the MCU version of the character and explore the fate of Asgard post Infinity War while you're at it

At the same time that New Asgard or Thortopia has to find its place in the universe, so does Valkyrie have to decide what her place will be in this new Asgard

Bring Sif back to be Val's supporting cast and maybe they date

Maybe some big threat against the fledging New Asgard that cameo Thor is too busy kinging to notice

Explore more of the Valkyrie org backstory and have the Valkyrie struggle with the idea of whether she should be training up a new generation and whether she can even bear to

There's a movie there

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78699: Jan 5th 2018 at 4:17:22 PM

[up] Honestly that sounds more like the episode of a TV show. I think you would need a larger arc, goal or task for her. Perhaps some kind of quest.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78700: Jan 5th 2018 at 4:36:58 PM

Omg omg Thor sends Valkyrie on a quest (he must stay and be a Responsible King of New Asgard) and Valkyrie needs a Team so she picks up Sif and Gamora and Nebula and Mantis and GIMME GIMME GIMME.

edited 5th Jan '18 4:37:49 PM by wisewillow


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