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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78501: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:47:39 AM

[up][up][up]

Tony: Steve, before I die I want...to tell you something

Steve: what?

Tony: not matter what happen....just must remenber....that....that...im will always be......better than you....-dies-

Steve: that is.......ughhhhhhh.

Anyway, having looking homecoming and the vulture....sorry, but it feel like vulture want to be iron man villian but he knows there isnt going to be Iron man 4 so he have to settle with peter, what a shame really.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78502: Dec 31st 2017 at 2:17:27 AM

Honestly I liked that. One of the complaints that I've heard about the previous Spider-Man film, is that the villains needed to have some kind of firm "personal connection" to Peter. So the idea that, for a Spider-Man who's just starting out, he fights a baddie that isn't personally connected to him (well until he finds out that Spider-Man is dating his daughter anyway) makes sense.

Also if you're going to portray Vulture as an ordinary guy who feels like he's been screwed over by the "elites," then using Tony Stark as his object of resentment makes sense (especially since one of Tony's big character traits is that, while he has good intentions usually, he doesn't always consider the unintended consequences of his actions).

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78503: Dec 31st 2017 at 2:35:02 AM

[up]I dont know, I would prefer if they use oscorp rather than Starks because a)adding more shady shit to tony is already tiring a this point, the poor bastard already have to deal with creating AI that wipe up sokovia(and yes, im going to kept bring that up, always) and B) it kinda look Peter as just coincidence rather than a serious threat until the very last of the movie.

edited 31st Dec '17 2:35:45 AM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78504: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:29:30 AM

The thing is, Tony doesn't really do much "shady" here. It's Vulture's projecting more than anything else. Also Marvel seems like they really want to try and do new stuff here. Making Liz Allen the LI instead of MJ or Gwen Stacy, whatever the heck they're doing with "Michelle," the different take of Flash Thompson, etc.

So given that Norman Osborn was the main villain of the first Raimi film, and Oscorp was the source of all evil in the Marc Webb films (he himself compared it to the Tower of Babel even), Marvel probably went "we don't need to touch the Osborn's right now, we might get to that later."

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78505: Dec 31st 2017 at 8:57:55 AM

Glad this topic came up, because I finally saw Homecoming last night.

So, while I found Keaton's tombed well-acted and interesting and certainly someone with sympathetic qualities, I really did not at all come away seeing "an honest man turned to crime by Tony Stark/ an unfair system".

What's particularly glaring to me is the fact that he and the same crew of people he worked with as an "honest" salvager very easily transition into being professional criminals. And early in the movie, not only do he or the others really hold back in the slightest when Spider-Man is impeding them, but they are all not at all horrified (and more amused than anything) when Toombes accidentally fried that guy. Speaking of which, my impression going in was that Toombes had threatened that Toombes' family, which would have somewhat morally justified Toombes reaction, but the guy's threat was more along the lines of threatening to turn Toombes in, at which point his family would find out about his criminal double life.

Not to mention that on the ferry and at the Washington Monument, Toombes causes destruction that could have killed lots of people and doesn't evidence any guilt or remorse, except gratitude that in the latter case, Peter saved his daughter, who was among the people that would have been killed.

And connected to all of the above, the movie also has Aaron Davis, who is an "actual" professional criminal, and has more moral scruples than Toombes or anyone in his crew. I'm not sure to what extent the races of the characters are deliberate (besides in terms of comic accuracy), but yeah, Toombes is plumbing similar "aggrieved, self-righteous white guy criminal" as Walter White.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78506: Dec 31st 2017 at 8:59:57 AM

Wasn't the Washington Monument disaster caused by Peter stealing a thing and then his friend bringing it to the place?

Aside from owning a dangerous illegal thing in the first place, Toomes didn't have much to do with the Washington Monument specifically.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78507: Dec 31st 2017 at 9:02:43 AM

Hmm. Yeah. I think I was misremembering and thought he was also fighting Peter as Vulture there. So, fair point with that.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#78508: Dec 31st 2017 at 9:13:26 AM

[up][up][up] People have been comparing him to Walter White since the film came out.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78509: Dec 31st 2017 at 9:14:25 AM

I think that the idea is supposed to be that Toomes did get a raw deal to a degree (although honestly the "setting up Damage Control" idea made sense imo). BUT, there's also that classic villain element of "using it as an excuse to justify your own current bad actions). I mean surely Toomes didn't have to immediately resort to weapons dealing/criminality. There were degrees in-between. But he was so angry and bitter that he decided to go to the most extreme option.

It's part of why, despite being interesting and having sympathetic/relatable qualities, he is ultimately the bad guy.

As an aside, I REALLY want them to use Mysterio in the next film (I've been waiting to see him as a baddie in a Spider-Man film for so long now).

J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#78510: Dec 31st 2017 at 10:40:37 AM

I wonder what a movie Mysterio would look like. There's no way they could pull off the fishbowl helmet in a live-action movie without getting laughed at (though the rest of his comic outfit is doable).

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#78511: Dec 31st 2017 at 12:43:01 PM

I think this design could work awesomely for Mysterio, with a Black Cat as a bonus: https://imgur.com/a/oLJAK

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78512: Dec 31st 2017 at 1:16:04 PM

Looks a bit too much like Vision.

Eldritcho Since: Nov, 2016
#78513: Dec 31st 2017 at 2:56:40 PM

Perhaps the Ultimates version, where his head is a cloud of mist with a holographic face?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78514: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:18:53 PM

Maybe more of a spacesuit vibe with a scheme if pretending to be aliens for some dang reason

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78515: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:37:58 PM

Huh. You know, that could work. The Spectacular cartoon had Mysterio pretend to have magic powers, which I also think would work well in the magic-averse MCU. But what with the Loki/Chiatauri invasion and Toombes' tech being derived from their weaponry, a Mysterio that pretended to be some kind of Galactic Conqueror would also work.

Incidentally, I recently saw Despicable Me 3 and Trey Parker's character was a pretty decent take on Mysterio (although not self-aware and relatively sympathetic like the Spectacular version)- a deluded former child star who is nonetheless quite intelligent and uses weapons modeled off of toys and beneath his goofy(as well as "campy") personality is a murderous sociopath. And Parker is one of the people that came to mind as playing Mysterio (the others being Lin Manuel Miranda and Seth Mac Farlene) because of this Fan of the Past element to his character.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78516: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:39:25 PM

Nicolas Cage as Mysterio or bust.

Let no scenery be left unchewed.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#78517: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:40:34 PM

People have suggested Bruce Campbell which I would also like to see.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78518: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:41:32 PM

I still want Cage for Kraven, personally. But he'd probably make a good Mysterio. It's just a really tough call between Cage and Campbell.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78519: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:45:33 PM

Campbell is actually my favorite solely for the joke of him actually being the guy in the Raimi films.

Cage doesn't work for Kraven because you need a more physically fit actor for a character whose shtick is hunting Spidey with his bare hands, and Cage is in a pretty poor physical shape. I'd suggest Kristofer Hivju, or as he's better known Tormund Giantsbane from Game of Thrones.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78520: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:46:08 PM

I kind of have an aversion to Cage being cast in good movies. Guess I feel like he had his chance. Campbell would also be good. The others that came to mind for me are H. Jon Benjamin and Neil Patrick Harris.

Basically, I'm really "stuck" on a Mysterio along the lines of Spectacular who is basically an evil LARP-er. Which is to say that he's plenty hammy as Mysterio, but when he takes off the mask, he's a normal guy.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78521: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:46:12 PM

Can we still get Keanu Reeves as Chameleon?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78522: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:47:18 PM

I could actually see Keanu Reeves as Kraven as well.

Imagine John Wick hunting Spider-Man.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#78523: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:48:12 PM

But can Reeves pull off a Russian accent?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78524: Dec 31st 2017 at 3:57:06 PM

Can Kraven pull off a Russian accent? Or to put it another way a Fake Russian would work great for him just like it did for Doctor Faustus.

By the way, I like the theory that the principal Ned mentions who shot a student with an arrow is Kraven.

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#78525: Dec 31st 2017 at 7:33:05 PM

Maybe more of a spacesuit vibe with a scheme if pretending to be aliens for some dang reason.

Huh. You know, that could work. The Spectacular cartoon had Mysterio pretend to have magic powers, which I also think would work well in the magic-averse MCU. But what with the Loki/Chiatauri invasion and Toombes' tech being derived from their weaponry, a Mysterio that pretended to be some kind of Galactic Conqueror would also work.

Didn't the Spider-Man 2 have that as Mysterio's gimmick, come to think of it? Complete with attack drones disguised as alien spacecraft and hologram technology to disguise himself as an Energy Being, if memory serves.

edited 31st Dec '17 7:33:50 PM by MapleSamurai


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