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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#78426: Dec 27th 2017 at 1:56:55 AM

I don't know if it fits here, but I saw this fanfiction about Loki being Maria Stark in the MCU. Given his mythological background, he was infamous for sleeping with mortal men and bearing their children.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/1303921/chapters/2708047

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#78427: Dec 27th 2017 at 6:10:25 AM

Loki's totally a doofus in Ragnarok. But it's hilarious. [lol]

I was a little disappointed about how straight they wound up playing Loki's replacement of Odin. I was hoping for a twist. Odin conveniently decided to stay on Earth after miraculously recovering offscreen from whatever Loki did to him offscreen. Thor remains miffed about it for like two seconds and then never brings it up again; his opinion of Loki flipping from "Murderer of my father" to "That wacky rapscallion" by the next time he sees him.

Also, that whole death scene of Odin waiting for his sons by the edge of a cliff and somehow knowing they'd be right there at that exact time despite the perfect storm of uncontrollable happenstances that had to conspire to get them there just felt awkward and forced. As funny as the scene where the old folks' home was demolished to Loki's shock, it's to the detriment of the credibility for this sequence of events; Odin somehow anticipated that they would find him down to the exact moment of their arrival when nobody was even looking for him and the most precise coordinates anyone had was "somewhere on Earth".

This sequence, while hilarious, is easily the weakest part of the film. It strains credibility that Odin would just be like, "Huh, Loki betrayed me and usurped my throne. Oh, well, f*ck Asgard anyway. I only have a week to live and my boys will find me exactly two minutes before my death, so I don't care about Asgard anymore. I'm going to go hang out on Emo Exile Island and stare at the ocean; I've heard good reviews from Luke Skywalker."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78428: Dec 27th 2017 at 7:06:07 AM

I interpreted it more that he was barely managing to hold on and waiting for his sons to find him

Probably why he didn't come back. If he was about to dissolve into sparkles, he probably wouldn't have survived the bifrosting

And when they did manage to find him he just so happened to be gazing over the cliff for the comfort it gave him

Either that or he was like fuck it you want Asgard so much have it choke on it even I'm retired now

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78429: Dec 27th 2017 at 4:32:18 PM

The parental tradition of leaving your kids to clean up your mess.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#78430: Dec 27th 2017 at 4:38:38 PM

Huh, I just realized that losing a family member is an once an episode thing for Thor

(Loki came back but then Thor lost his dad and his secret murder sister so it evens out)

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78432: Dec 27th 2017 at 6:41:06 PM

I hope that they didn't spend all of that time building up Valkyrie, just to kill her off right away in IW. That'd be, underwhelming.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#78433: Dec 27th 2017 at 6:42:21 PM

He lost Hammer. It's enough losses for one life.

edited 27th Dec '17 6:42:27 PM by Tuckerscreator

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78434: Dec 27th 2017 at 6:50:39 PM

If they kill Valkyrie and/or Heimdall, we riot.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78435: Dec 27th 2017 at 8:03:58 PM

We all know Korg will beat Thanos, so they're fine.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78436: Dec 27th 2017 at 8:08:16 PM

Another day, another Doug.

- Korg, as he stands above Thanos's corpse, and takes his Gauntlet.

edited 27th Dec '17 8:08:38 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#78437: Dec 27th 2017 at 8:12:15 PM

"The parental tradition of leaving your kids to clean up your mess."

Like tony father? Or Ego?

A proud tradition indeed.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#78438: Dec 28th 2017 at 12:22:20 AM

He lost his sister...maybe >_>

Just Makima.
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#78439: Dec 28th 2017 at 5:32:20 AM

Didn't she kinda get stabbed in the face by a giant angry volcano monster?

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#78440: Dec 28th 2017 at 5:47:01 AM

Some people have speculated that she might have teleported out of there at the last second (supposedly there's a puff of green smoke of something right before).

I hope that she's not dead, it'd be a waste of potential otherwise.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78441: Dec 28th 2017 at 6:25:06 AM

It has been speculated for some time she may turn out to be the object of Thanos’ affections rather than Death.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#78442: Dec 28th 2017 at 6:39:21 AM

Major disappointment if that happens.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#78444: Dec 28th 2017 at 7:03:02 AM

As you can see from my avatar, major fan of Marvel's cosmic side. That, and Death is pretty integral to Thanos's character. Lady Death is the concept of death itself, which would make sense for a nihilist like Thanos to be obsessed with, not a random Norse goddess.( I know that's not what nihilism is, but that's what Thanos has been described as)

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#78445: Dec 28th 2017 at 7:29:55 AM

Yeah, I feel like it would be a huge downgrade for his character for it to be Hela. For one, she's not the anthropomorphic embodiment of death itself. She's just a lunatic Asgardian who likes to murder folk. It turns Thanos from an unstable man who worships a dangerous abstract that is represented by a certain avatar into just a dude who met a hot chick and wants to bang her.

Worse still, she's been imprisoned for millennia, so this would have to be a relatively recent thing. Thanos's infatuation with Death, the core of his character, would be changed to, "Thanos is a bad dude who does bad things, and also he met Hela last Tuesday and think she's hot."

A choice was made early on to have the Asgardians just be Sufficiently Advanced Aliens and not true gods, and that choice makes Hela's claim to "Goddess of Death" just a cool Badass Boast. It doesn't actually mean anything.

edited 28th Dec '17 7:31:14 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#78446: Dec 28th 2017 at 7:47:49 AM

In fairness a lot of that speculation was done before we knew Hela was just the redheaded stepchild out of Odin's kids. (At one point I was wondering if she might be Loki's mother.) Before the movie came out, she could've been anything. She might have figured into the Asgardian myths without necessarily being a part of them, And Sufficiently Advanced Aliens or not, these people presumably did inspire Norse myths in some capacity, as opposed to the other way around.

And the MCU kinda makes it a little tough to gauge exactly how strong/indestructible any given being actually is, outside of Strong as They Need to Be. We tend not to see their power limits as a civilization in relation to anything other than each other. Hela was exponentially stronger than Thor, Thor was able to go toe to toe with the Hulk, and yet Thor can be taken out repeatedly by a little joy buzzer thing? These technology levels are all over the map.

And if Hela is still alive, and manages to, say, Pac Man Surtur and raid the Asgardian treasury of whatever Loki left behind, she might get a power upgrade of her own. Death is an archetype, and Ragnarok is a cyclical myth (Thor becomes the Allfather in the comics, and thanks to Hela now he looks the part), so maybe the Asgardians are more powerful than they realize or understand.

edited 28th Dec '17 10:07:58 AM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#78447: Dec 28th 2017 at 7:53:34 AM

There's no indication that Ragnarok is cyclical in the MCU. They treated it more like a prophecy.

Thor was able to go toe to toe with the Hulk, yet Thor can be taken out repeatedly by a little joy buzzer thing?

I mean, the joy buzzer didn't punch him. It delivered an electric current through his body. Electricity and blunt force trauma are very different forms of harm that do very different things to a person's body. Electricity doesn't care how well developed your muscles are or how thick your skin is; it burns you from the inside-out.

You can spend years bulking up, lifting weights, eating steak, packing on mass until you're 350 lbs of solid muscle capable of bench-pressing a heavyweight boxer, and you're still going to lose an arm-wrestling match with a live wire.

edited 28th Dec '17 7:57:51 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#78448: Dec 28th 2017 at 7:56:14 AM

Infinity War promo art.

As for Thanos having a thing for Hela, that doesn’t preclude him from still having his obsession with the concept of death.

In the comics they paired the two off on the logic that she simply embodies the same sort of thing he’s spent his life obsessing over, which could similarly be used here. He doesn’t have to be entirely motivated by Hela.

edited 28th Dec '17 8:01:31 AM by comicwriter

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78449: Dec 28th 2017 at 8:09:41 AM

I don't have any problem with the logistics of Hela being Lady Death. The central problem is characterization. Lady Death is a much more dignified, calm and even benevolent at times character. Hela is a psychotic mass murderer. One of the usual character beats for Thanos is that Death is actually a lot nicer than him and occasionally calls him out on the utter insanity of his actions. Hela would just cheer him on.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#78450: Dec 28th 2017 at 8:26:45 AM

@Drake: The fact that they aren't really fully aware of the ways in which it's cyclical is usually part of how it's cyclical, at least in the comics. These events keep happening, but not in exactly the same way.

The joy-buzzer is embedded in his skin, and he's a guy who can magically channel colossal amounts of lightning and withstand being up close and personal with a guy made of magma, so I feel like I'm not really unwarranted in guessing that that Asgardian toughness is more than just skin-deep and that said joy-buzzer is doing something more than just shocking him. But it's all guesswork anyway— my point is that they're not going to really go into detail on power levels, which is by design, so they can simply make up how powerful Asgardians are compared to Thanos as suits their needs/whims. What with the stacking buffs from the Infinity Stones, I have zero expectation of their respective power levels getting any clearer.

@comicwriter: Sort of looks like Steve went and saw a barber at some point? The royal Wakandan barber, I guess. It's probably just the way the poster is bent, but T'Challa looks tiny in this.

@Gaon: Well, what Hela wants to conquer, Thanos probably wants to destroy. And maybe being killed(?) by Surtr will humble her, who knows.

edited 28th Dec '17 8:45:16 AM by Unsung


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