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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
In an era where neonazis can freely demonstrate on American soil with their flags, it would be a shame to ditch a holocaust-themed character.
As for X-villainesses, I fear a number of headscratchers re: the most prominent ones:
- Mystique is going to be hard to recast, especially as a villain after her going through a rather well done Heel–Face Turn was the centerpiece of an entire movie.
- Lady Deathstrike would feel like using Wolverine without using him.
- Dark Phoenix requires Jean Grey first, so you can't use her right off the bat
- Emma Frost or Polaris are known for their Heel–Face Turn, plus Polaris is excellently portrayed on The Gifted, and Emma is kinda there too since the Cuckoos became major antagonists.
- Other female enemies might be a bit too obscure to hold their own as major villains, so they would require an Ensemble Cast of antagonists, which is not easy to pull in movie format
I mean if Marvel can use characters like Alexander Pierce, or Darren Cross, or freaking Whiplash, etc as villains for their films, then I don't think that "too obscure" is a deal-breaker for them.
As for "using Wolverine without using him" that'd actually be the best option right now I think. Like use X-23 (hopefully played by Dafne Keen, but we'll see) in his place for awhile. Let the aura of Hugh Jackman's iconic portrayal die down for a few years at least. And then perhaps find a way to bring Logan back with a new actor.
Pierce was the frontman for Hydra, and Whiplash is hardly a success of character writing. But it's true about Deathstrike, especially since the only time we saw her she had absolutely no agenda of her own.
The only issue is that her powers might make it hard to create a PG-rated threat. She is supposed to be slashy and stabby. Without blood it might not look that cool.
edited 24th Dec '17 6:42:23 AM by Julep
He doesn't have to be. In the comics, he shifts between sympathetic villain and antihero a lot. In fact, over the last few decades, he's been on a lot of different X-Men teams.
"Magneto MUST be a villain and can ONLY EVER be a villain" is another way in which the adaptations of comics tend to be mired in the 60's and refuse to allow the characters to grow into more modern depictions. It's to the character's detriment that someone whose identity is so thoroughly defined by being a victim of hate is constantly Flanderized into being 100% irredeemable evil in adaptation.
edited 24th Dec '17 6:56:35 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.There was a time in the 90s when a bunch of fans of X-Men started working on X-Men which included Harras and Jim Lee
And because they were a fan of classic X-Men stuff you got a huge snapback. Magneto decided to become a villain again because the New Mutants were such awful lemmings. Professor X lost the use of his legs again. A large amount of Claremont's years of development rolled back because fans wanted to write X-Men like they had growing up, including ARCHFIEND MAGNETO MASTER OF MAGNET
As it was, so it is.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersNot really. Magneto's moral ambiguity is kind of a well-known thing by this point. He's in that "well maybe he's a villain, but lots of people don't see him as a full-on villain and is more of a grey character" status.
It wouldn't be that hard to sell him trying to "atone" for bad things that he's done in the past. Heck they're doing that with MCU Black Widow and Gamora already, so they're not above going there.
The late '90s/early 2000s pretty much had Magneto going back and forth between villain and atoner about once a year.
You could update his backstory, or you could just accept that he's really old. Call it a secondary mutation. Unusual longevity is hardly the weirdest thing someone could luck into with their X-gene.
edited 24th Dec '17 8:02:24 AM by Unsung
Magnets do anything
Flying, mind control, charisma, forcing your daughter to sexy dance for you
Anything
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
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You HAD to bring that up, didn't you?
◊
edited 24th Dec '17 8:06:10 AM by kkhohoho
I mean, I didn't have to
But I do it anyway.
It is my terrible burden.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersPolitically I have my doubts that keeping Magneto a Holocaust survivor would be viewed as throwing an unintentional bone to Neo-Nazis, since:
1. This is pretty well known as a element of his character for a long time.
2. Neo-Nazis prefer pretending the Holocaust never happened (but there’s never any who wouldn’t want one...)
3. It’s a fair point to keep around that being a Holocaust survivor doesn’t immediately make one right about everything else. It remains contemporary today due to certain controversies in certain disputed territories aaand I’m cutting myself off.
Magneto's primary motivation is that he is trying to protect his people from genocide and slavery by whatever means necessary. He looks at the way the world treats mutants and sees another Holocaust waiting to happen. It is super easy to make that a sympathetic motivation, and several films have done so while retaining him as a villain.
It's not that hard of a leap to making him a hero. The comics have already done it several times.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
And every time they do, they end up going back on it.
Being a Holocaust survivor might give Magneto a sympathetic backstory but it does not make him a sympathetic character. With Magneto you get a guy who hates the nazis so much that he doesn't realize he's become them something even the Red Skull pointed out once. The only difference between Magneto and the Skull is the latter (and the guys who write him) know what a bastard he is.
Hell, for all my issues with Mark Millar, even he didn't pretend Magneto was anything other than a megalomaniacal S.O.B.
The only way the MCU could make Magneto a hero is to ignore his crimes and we all saw how much that was a mistake when they did it with Wanda.
edited 24th Dec '17 10:43:20 AM by windleopard
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The debate was more about his age, because holocaust survivors are at least 80 right now.
There are several instances of Magneto being a sympathetic character and villain already, so it's not about whether it is possible, it's how to do it without copying a previous movie.
edited 24th Dec '17 10:41:02 AM by Julep
It's not. A lot of sites are reporting that they're soft-rebooting the MCU based on some remarks by Feige that Avengers 4 will be a game-changer and nothing will be the same and that the next twenty movies will be very different from the previous, etc. etc.
But none of that actually means they're rebooting anything. Just that Avengers 4 marks the probable end of an era for a lot of franchises. Many of the actors who've been here from the beginning are reaching the end of their contracts. Some already have.
The end of an era Feige's talking about is that we're probably going to be looking at some very different movies coming down the pipe. Phase 4's movies is more likely to consist of, say, Nova, Black Widow, Doctor Strange 2, and She-Hulk than it is to be Captain America 4, Iron Man 4, Thor 4, etc.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
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There's still good in Magneto, at least according to Xavier, and he does have quite the Freudian Excuse when it comes to being afraid of history repeating itself. The Red Skull, not so much on either count.
But yeah, it'd be pretty hard to play him as a straight-up hero with the number of genocidal plots he's attempted over the years, one way or the other.
edited 24th Dec '17 12:52:16 PM by Unsung
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I know. But if they are really soft-rebooting they can make the MCU films period pieces. Set it in the 60s when the Marvel hit the scene.
What gives the impression of a soft reboot is what Bob Iger said a month ago.
“We’re looking for worlds that are completely separate—geographically or in time—from the worlds that we’ve already visited”
And Feige saying that there kinda won’t be a phase 4.
edited 24th Dec '17 10:52:25 AM by ManOfSin

The X-Men Evolution show had Magneto use a machine to keep himself relatively young and fit. That was their way of keeping the WWII backstory (although they weren't overt in the Holocause references there for obvious reasons) while not having him look like a super-old/frail man in the present-day.
Given all of the other weird crap in the MCU already, I don't see why they couldn't use a similar type of plot-device for the films.
Also as for X-villains, I'd really like to see them use more female ones (or at least use them more prominently) as well.