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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Cross (Don’t ask)
#78151: Dec 19th 2017 at 4:14:47 PM

"Fun isn't something one considers when flying in a personalized rotorcraft. But this does put a smile on my face."

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78152: Dec 19th 2017 at 6:19:50 PM
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#78153: Dec 19th 2017 at 7:18:27 PM

I totally buy that Thanos comes to earth because Tony fucked up or pissed him off.

I've said before that he's the greatest threat to earth ever, and that things would be better if he wasn't around to draw so many enemies to them.

I meant that as half a joke, but I still expect the issues people have with him to interfere with things in Infinity War.

Yeah, Cap screwed up too (and admits it) but people like him more, so they will—unfortunately to some—give him a pass.

So in summation, #All Tony's Fault!evil grin

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#78154: Dec 19th 2017 at 7:37:23 PM

One of Tony's missiles from Iron Man 1 was accidentally launched into space, where it drifted through the cosmos and accidentally bonked Thanos in the head during space breakfast, making him spill his space coffee.

edited 19th Dec '17 7:37:42 PM by KnownUnknown

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78155: Dec 19th 2017 at 8:13:18 PM

Thanos is pissed off about the nuke that Tony redirected into space. Stark killed his favorite mook army that he was lending to Loki. He even made Loki promise to take good care of the Chitauri and try not to break any of them.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#78156: Dec 19th 2017 at 8:21:04 PM

Ahh, so Thanos is John Wick in this scenario.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#78157: Dec 19th 2017 at 9:29:26 PM

Something just occurred to me:

One of the things that often doesn't make sense in Marvel Comics is how differently mutants and people who get superpowers from some other source are treated by the public, to the point where the X-Men often seem to be living in their own world separate from the rest of the Marvel Universe. But, as Disney acquires Fox and the film rights to the X-Men, we're most likely gonna see mutants showing up in the MCU in the future, and I've realized that they can potentially avert this problem here.

Because, when you think about it, very few MCU heroes so far are people with superpowers. Black Widow and Hawkeye are just very skilled secret agents. Doctor Stange's magic is, similarly, a skill rather than an innate power, something anyone could do if they had the proper training. Iron Man, War Machine, Falcon, Ant-Man, and Vision just make use of super-advanced technology (or, in Vision's case, are super advanced technology). And Thor, while he has powers, is an alien and a god, which kinda makes him his own separate thing.

The only heroes who are human beings who have been physically altered somehow to give them powers are Captain America, the Hulk, the Winter Soldier, Scarlet Witch, Spider-Man, and possibly Black Panther (based solely on Civil War it's unclear if he has enhanced physical abilities, or if he's just a really skilled fighter with access to a vibranium suit).

Hulk, Bucky, and Wanda are all feared by the populace, and even Cap is a wanted fugitive now. Spider-Man seems to be popular with a lot of people locally, but a) it's probably unclear to the average person on the street whether he actually has powers, or if it all comes from the suit, and b) there's good odds that the "Threat or Menace" smear campaign will show up in the sequels. And T'Challa (if he even is a superhuman) lives in the ultra-isolationist nation of Wakanda, where the attitude towards superhumans in the world at large is unlikely to affect him.

I think you can see what I'm getting at. When/if (probably when) mutants are brought into the MCU, instead of having the public hate and fear mutants specifically, Marvel could have them hate all superhumans without it really affecting any of their already established heroes. Either they don't fall under the category of "superhuman", or they're hated and feared by the public already, or they're far enough removed from normal society that none of this really matters.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#78158: Dec 19th 2017 at 9:31:08 PM

...that actually kinda makes sense. It’d require build up, but it makes sense.

Cap, Hulk, Bucky count as science experiments, not innate freaks. Scarlet Witch ditto; Spider-Man ditto (although public doesn’t know his origin, and again can blame the suit).

edited 19th Dec '17 9:32:09 PM by wisewillow

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#78159: Dec 19th 2017 at 9:32:57 PM

Would not Wanda also be in the "science experiment" category, then?

Edit: I see you edit-ninja'd

edited 19th Dec '17 9:33:51 PM by TheAirman

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#78160: Dec 19th 2017 at 9:42:54 PM

My point is that a bigoted public probably isn't going to make a distinction between "got powers from freakish science experiment" and "got powers from freakish genetic quirk", but they are probably going to make a distinction between the above and people whose "powers" are just them being more talented or having access to better gadgets than everyone else, not the result of them being physically different from ordinary people.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#78161: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:11:29 PM

I kind of like the idea of anti-superhuman sentiment growing in general but the Avengers simply being exceptions. Like racists making exceptions for ethnic entertainers they like. It also gives the plot point of even the Avengers being on a knife edge in regards to public reception.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#78162: Dec 19th 2017 at 10:46:04 PM

It would be funny if Avengers vs X-Men happens in the MCU, but the twist is the public actually favors the mutants while the Avengers are siding with the more dangerous superhuman heroes.

Just Makima.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#78163: Dec 20th 2017 at 12:28:26 AM

It might be difficult for bigots to define a distinction, but they don’t really NEED to draw a distinction. It’s pretty common on real life for racists to attack multiple POC groups despite claiming they only have a beef with one. An anti-Middle-Eastern bully doesn’t usually stop to run a DNA test on if their victim is actually Mexican or Indian or such. So a jerk who yells at Storm “Go back to the moon!” is plenty plausible.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#78164: Dec 20th 2017 at 8:00:37 AM

@Raven Wilder and @Tuckerscreator- Interesting thoughts. I was also reminded of something which is kind of relevant to how the Xavier X Men team would be viewed. So, I have this sort of friend from college who also became an attorney, and is pretty conservative. I remember when that "Judge Curiel controversy" came up, there was a Facebook discussion I saw between him and someone else- a Trump supporter- in which the other person kept asserting that Curiel was a dangerous radical (and implicitly sort of anti-American) because he belonged to some Hispanic-centric bar associations. And the conservative friend, who being Hispanic as well, belonged to the same associations, kept trying to persuade the Trump supporter, without success, that these associations are just a normal professional associations that are typical of attorneys.

It was kind of funny, because the conservative friend would normally be critical of race based associations, but was in the position of defending them (as he acknowledged during the conversation) since he belonged to the same ones being discussed with Judge Curiel.

Point being though that some people take really badly to "hyphenated-American" groups having their own associations, no matter how benign, and don't get how it can be an understandable and even necessary thing. And the person in this conversation wasn't even going the further step in complaining about he lack of white associations. And with the X Men, you have Xavier creating a school/group for Mutants that is rather more than just a professional association. So, there's kind of a vicious circle in that the Xavier Institute is necessary because people hate Mutants and people hate Mutants because of the Xavier Institute.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#78165: Dec 20th 2017 at 10:16:30 AM

MCU should not have mutants be feared and hatred by the majority because it’s played out. Even Fox has moved away from that with only certain groups and individuals of people hating and fearing mutants instead of the government going after them. Which is lined with modern discrimination.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78166: Dec 20th 2017 at 10:17:54 AM

[up] Really? From my perspective the notion of the government going after them has been considerably more realistic recently.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#78167: Dec 20th 2017 at 10:31:08 AM

[up]

It really isn’t. Mutants have the potential to cure diseases, save lives, advance technology, etc. This is even brought up in Logan. The government would want to use control mutants, not get rid of them.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#78168: Dec 20th 2017 at 10:33:13 AM

In this political climate, now is a better time than ever to use the mutants as a metaphor for discriminated against groups.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#78169: Dec 20th 2017 at 10:36:54 AM

[up]

Mutants wouldn’t be a good metaphor for that and Trump would be out of office by 2020 or earlier. Before the MCU can do anything with mutants.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#78171: Dec 20th 2017 at 10:53:32 AM

[up][up] Trump is a symptom. He is not the underlying illness. And he isn't an isolated problem either. We have Poland taking away civil rights in the name of "protection from foreigners", we have Turkey going all dictatorship in the name of "protection of the borders and from the west", we have the UK wrecking its own economy in the name of "we need to stop immigration".

And the Mutant parallel works now better than ever, too, because, well, favourite arguments against taking refugees is "they could be dangerous".

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#78172: Dec 20th 2017 at 11:02:17 AM

Mutants as a parallel for bigotry is absolutely relevant in this day and age, but the way many X-Men properties present it is not. The government shouldn't be hunting mutants down and sending death squads and giant robots to get them. Most of the bigotry mutants face should be coming from law officers and Joe Q. Public, with the government conspicuously turning a blind eye.

The biggest threat to a mutant's wellbeing shouldn't be Senator Dipshit who introduced the Genocide is Super Sweet and We Need More of It Bill. It should be the half-dozen private citizens who follow him around while flaunting their open carry rights whenever he steps outside, "to make sure he doesn't start something".

edited 20th Dec '17 11:06:58 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#78173: Dec 20th 2017 at 11:05:56 AM

Or, as per God Loves, Man Kills, Preachers starting shit.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#78174: Dec 20th 2017 at 11:06:28 AM

[up][up][up][up]

We were talking politic climate...

[up][up][up]

Mutants don’t come from one place but pop-up everywhere on the planet. That’s why I said that they wouldn’t make a good metaphor for foreigners. Because they aren’t from some foreign land for the most part.

[up][up]

Kinda what I meant.

edited 20th Dec '17 11:07:07 AM by ManOfSin

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#78175: Dec 20th 2017 at 11:07:30 AM

Systemic bigotry in the modern day America does not manifest as active genocidal programs such as concentration camps. Instead, it takes the form of willful neglect. The government isn't going to send a death squad to round up Muslims. Instead, the threat is that if you're a Muslim and you need help, the government will stand by and let you die.

edited 20th Dec '17 11:07:39 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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