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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Can anyone explain me what the advantage is of bending over backwards to shoehorn the X-men into this continuity is? I mean, obviously this is something everyone wants, but why? As I pointed out, you could still the team-up thing in dimension hopping events. So what is gained from having them all in the same reality?
That feels like a loaded question. Why assume they would need to bend over backwards to introduce the X-Men at all?
It's not like there's no solution besides "dramatically wank the continuity to fit the entire idea at once." Suddenly introducing entirely new dimensions, which is itself an idea that could ultimately redirect the entire MCU to accommodate is, seems far more extreme and obtrusive than just having mutants start to exist in the universe. It's not worth the comparatively small and largely unnecessary gain.
edited 17th Dec '17 4:44:11 PM by KnownUnknown
They don't have to reuse elements from the Fox movies, but mutants being hated and feared isn't just one minor element that originated with those movies, it's central to the whole premise of the X-Men as characters.
edited 17th Dec '17 4:43:48 PM by Unsung
It kind of has to. Otherwise it will take years until we actually get to the x-men.
And I still haven't gotten a good explanation why it is vital to have them in the same reality as Captain America, especially if there are so many advantage in not doing it.
edited 17th Dec '17 4:48:36 PM by Swanpride
That, and the X-Men just spent four movies starting from scratch in their own continuity. Seeing the whole thing from the ground up again? Just not that appealing to me. The concept of the multiverse introduced into the MCU (MCMU?), on the other hand, seems to kill a few birds with one stone.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:06:10 PM by Unsung
So? It's going to take years regardless. What reason does Marvel Studios have to rush the entire X-Men when they already have so much on their plate?
Especially given that the ensemble, main universe X-Men series isn't in the best spot right now, while individual moves in the franchise were doing so well. Giving it a chance to cool down while slowly setting up its return works to the audience as well.
Keep in mind that Marvel Studios already had plans up to 2028 that - unless buying Fox at this time was part of those Machiavellian schemes - had nothing to do with the X-Men anyway. Trickling and weaving a new concept into the continuity gradually might not just be their best option for reconciling it all, it might be their only option.
I don't see much benefit in literally having the X-Men be in an entirely different reality that doesn't actually interact with the MCU. It's basically throwing away the money synergy would otherwise give them, which is the reason they wanted them. They might as well have not bought them at all and continued making tried-and-true money from the successful ideas they were already using if they were going to do that.
edited 17th Dec '17 4:55:14 PM by KnownUnknown
Especially since the concept is already part of the MCU, ready to be explored further.
Honestly, you can just start with "here is the situation and the rules of this world, this is our main character for this movie, so let's follow our protagonist into the world of the X-men". You know, pretty much what they did in the Animated show, but better. It doesn't even have to be a big blockbuster movie in terms of the budget. It could be a middle-budget movie focussing more on characters and their plight than on big action scenes.
who says that there won't be interaction? Just do a few movies, then make a big cross over event which ends with certain characters being stranded in each others reality. Which is frankly not that different from what they do now, but with the different dimension as an extra barrier to explain why nobody turns up when the X-men are attacked by the government.
edited 17th Dec '17 4:56:43 PM by Swanpride
I'm sure they can and will course-correct on an occasion as momentous as this. Hell, I'm sure Feige had his wishlist of what he'd do if this somehow ever happened, some backdoor to bring things together if they ever lucked out and struck a deal the way they did with Sony and Spider-Man. This is more control than anyone ever expected, so I'm sure they'll make use of the opportunity.
But multiverse still gets my vote, not that my vote is being counted.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:03:26 PM by Unsung
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The MCU accomplished great things, but gradually including heavy social undertones over a decade so that in 2030 or something they can finally relaunch the X-Men brand? I mean, Marvel can rightfully be proud of what they accomplished so far, but they are still a company that needs money, and sitting on the likes of Storm, Jean Grey, Wolverine and Cyclops for a decade for the sake of coherence and creating a proper setting where mutant struggle would feel organic sounds pretty ridiculous.
When they got Spidey back, they almost immediately added him to their main universe. Granted, it's infinitely easier than doing the same with mutants, but they didn't devise a five-year plan that culminates in a Peter Parker being bitten by a radioactive spider.
And mine. Or some kind of Mind Screw dimension merge at the end of Phase Four. Hell, it could be a call back to DOFP with mutants themselves deciding to move to a universe where at least they won't be the only superpowered individuals, hoping that it will be better.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:01:09 PM by Julep
Here's a pitch:
After the existence of mutants has started to become known to the public (via some appearances by them in some teamup movies), the X-Men's first movie involves the government conducting secret, inhumane experiments on mutants to try and reverse engineer their powers. Magneto has discovered this, and has started attacking government facilities in an effort to stop the experiments and rescue the victimized mutants, but with a very cavalier attitude towards loss-of-life and collateral damage. The X-Men come in initially to stop Magneto's rampage, because Xavier sees Mags as his personal responsibility, then, when they find out about the imprisoned mutants, switch to trying to rescue them.
They succeed in this rescue mission, but in the process they're seen attacking government agents and pulling an Enemy Mine with wanted mass-murderer Magneto. The government denies that any illegal experiments occurred and insists the imprisoned mutants were dangerous criminals, whom the X-Men freed because mutants are only loyal to other mutants (something supported by Magneto making statements to just that effect), so humans must be equally united against them.
Thus we end the movie with the X-Men technically victorious and coming together as a team, but with their actions causing public sentiment to turn against mutantkind, which is a conflict for the sequels to address.
Marvel has already hinted at mutants in a sense.
Early seasons of Agents of Shield made reference to gifted individuals (this was before Inhumans popped up), and one of them (an asian dude who started calling himself Scorch) was the focus of an episode.
Now, it's true that the movies completely and utterly ignore basically everything that Marvel T.V. does, but there's a potential precedent there for Mutants having already been around (shield has been covering them up all this time).
Hell, they could actually do an inversion of the Mutants/Inhumans situations from the comics: mutants are quite as persecuted as Inhumans because it's not a believe alien disease, but a natural alteration in humanity...even if that's a really dumb idea.
One Strip! One Strip!Chicken and egg issue. The X-Men and Magneto's organization exist because of the public sentiment against mutantkind. You can't have those teams causing it.
I want a proper Fantastic 4 movie. I had a literal dream about the idea, and it was weird.
For some reason, it was an sequel of Fant4stic, except the actors involved actually had a good director and script. These Fantastic 4 go through a portal and suddenly there's just a ton of different Fantastic 4 teams. Like, there's Fant4stic, Fantastic 4 from the 2005 movie, with Chris Evens reprising his role, and like three more Fantastic 4 teams from other universes, one of which is from the MCU. No idea what the plot was supposed to be.
Kicking off the anti-mutant sentiment after mutant introductions with a confrontation between Weapon X and Magneto is a really good idea, now that you mention it. I've been wondering if they're going to retcon in Magneto as being the twins' father anyway (while the comics re-retcons him into being their father again as well).
Assuming that none of those characters would ever be used until the team as a whole is introduced is part of the problem here, I think. Again, literally dropping the whole team as a bomb - even eventually - isn't going to do them any favors. Building up the idea of mutants first, introducing the concept and some of the characters through a more solo or personalized movie series, then introducing anti-mutant sentiment as the mutants grow which leads into X-Men forming? That works.
Keep in mind that Marvel would have certainly made money hand over fist with what they had regardless. The X-Men aren't instant cash. Far from it: in comparison to the safe and easy situation they're in now, they're actually a risk - and a pretty big one. Their film series isn't one the best ground right now, and even had they stayed with Fox their future wasn't very stable.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:09:56 PM by KnownUnknown
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Not necessarily. A school to train mutants to use their powers is something that would be good to have whether mutant prejudice exists or not. And one ultra-powerful mutant who both looks down on people who don't have powers like him and has a low opinion of humanity's ability to accept people who are different could also come to be without pre-existing mutant prejudice.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:08:44 PM by RavenWilder
Magneto is built on being a reaction to prejudice. You cannot remove that from him. That would be like creating a meek and humble Dr Doom.
And his low opinion of humanity would be based on prejudice, just not necessarily prejudice against mutants. If your family has been a victim of ethnic cleansing, believing that humanity will turn against mutants in the same way is a pretty understandable conclusion to come to. And finding the government conducting Mengele-esque experiments on mutants would certainly reinforce that notion.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:20:03 PM by RavenWilder
Or, as per Raven's suggestion made earlier in the page, he could come about in reaction to more secretive and lesser known but no less terrible acts of prejudice and dehumanization, but in doing so cause that prejudice to become widespread - ironically creating the situation he was trying to prevent by combating it.
This would hardly be the first time Magneto has been characterized that way. It's arguably the way he's written in First Class and Days Of Future Past (one of his better adaptations), where the public largely knows nothing but rumors about mutants and the primary people exercising prejudice against them are the powerful and/or those with clearance and influence, but those people's actions are more than enough to spur him into action in turn, which then allows the greater, more terrible situation to exist through the endless cycle he creates.
The downside to that is that this would certainly be Weapon X, and that's a decent idea (there's groundwork that could easily fit Weapon X into the MCU even without the mutants being involved, and there's little hurt by using them in tandem) as long as they don't have these people just be HYDRA again.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:25:12 PM by KnownUnknown
Lesser known events that would make SHIELD and the Avengers look like utter tools for ignoring their existence.
Or Hydra, for that matter, which would probably have tried to use mutants if it had known of their existence.
I think it is the way that is going to be taken because it's the easiest one to quickly add a bunch of cash-cows to the universe. But it would be extremely disappointing from a consistency point of view, and going by the tones of the recent MCU movies, disappointing as X-Men stories too - because, again, the MCU hasn't been that great at tackling serious social issues so far (in movie form at least).
When X-Men decided to go the "brainless superhero entertainment" route, it gave us Apocalypse, and it was super disappointing.
edited 17th Dec '17 5:26:34 PM by Julep

I think the best way to introduce the mutants is to do it gradually. Rather than suddenly reveal that there's a population of mutants that are growing and under the protection of various key members, have have mutancy be a thing that is actually starting now. Have mutant characters show up in other movies, which works because a lot of characters associated with the X-Men either started out in or have extensive use as supporting characters in other characters' series as well. Have the most prominent mutants that work best on their own or as a small group receive their own movie (or continue to, in the case of Deadpool & Cable), with them and the world discovering that there's no previous explanation for their powers being a plot point for that series.
Until finally the hints come together and the world realizes that mutants exist. Basically what AOS tried to do with the Inhumans, but without needing ancient organizations and secret societies and what have you.
Hell, try a villain/anti-hero led or closer knit movie. I still think a movie about Weapon X, amping up the mad science angle and tying it into the super soldier serum and the political situations of the MCU, would be a good way to introduce the idea of mutants and what affect they might have without actually introducing mutants. Have mutancy be one of the things they're experimenting with, have it be a part of the universe without having to take it over.
In fact, I wouldn't mind a big "mutant problem / X-Men" situation being the big thing led up to in the MCU after Thanos is taken care of... albeit not as much as I want it to be Dr. Doom, but still.
Damn, I just remembered that Doom is back in Marvel's hands. Forget talking about the X-Men, the very idea gave me chills...
edited 17th Dec '17 4:42:44 PM by KnownUnknown