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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77951: Dec 16th 2017 at 8:50:24 PM

[up][up]And Spoderman for good measure.

edited 16th Dec '17 8:50:33 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#77952: Dec 16th 2017 at 8:54:00 PM

[up][up][up] Don't think we'll ever get Jessica Drew in film.

Just Makima.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#77953: Dec 16th 2017 at 8:54:26 PM

I'm probably the only one who wants Peni Parker to be in a movie.

This song needs more love.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77954: Dec 16th 2017 at 8:56:42 PM

I like the idea of every movie having a new love interest whose life is by the time the credits roll systematically ruined by association with Peter Parker. It feels like a very Spider-Man thing to do.

Ending with Carlie Cooper, not because I particularly like her, but because I really want the Marvel Spider-Man series with a Spider-Island adaptation.

It'd still end with her leaving him, and Peter being alone. Just like Joe Quesada intended.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77955: Dec 16th 2017 at 8:58:19 PM

And Anya Corazon and Pavitr Prabhakar and Peter Parquagh.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#77956: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:05:56 PM

In Quesada's defense, Marvel's been trying to kill off the Spider-Marriage for nearly as long as it's existed. There have been multiple attempts over the last 2-3 decades to drop a bridge on MJ, put her on a bus, derail her character, or otherwise do away with her and Peter's relationship. They were married in 1987 and as early as the 90's, writers have wanted them unmarried.

Quesada's not the one guy in all the universe who hated the Spider-Marriage and had the power to make it disappear. He's just the only person whose attempt actually took, where most of the others were eventually reversed.

When Quesada was ultimately replaced as Editor-in-Chief by Axel Alonso, fans were thrilled. "This is it!" they cried. "The first thing Alonso will do is obviously to bring back the Spider-Marriage, since it was universally loved by everyone except bitter manchild Quesada."

That didn't happen. Then it continued not happening. For years, now, Quesada's been out and the Spider-Marriage remains broken up. Marvel's even gone so far as to create an alternate universe where fans of the Spider-Marriage can have their cake without having to get any of it on the main 616 continuity.

End of the day, they've been trying to kill it for a long time, now it's dead, and it's probably never coming back because everyone at Marvel hates it.

edited 16th Dec '17 9:11:53 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#77957: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:13:32 PM

wild mass guessMCU Peter meets Gwen and tries to ask her out, but it turns out she is in fact Gwen Poole, who tries to avoid him so her life won't be destroyed, and also sets out to kill his villains before too many of them get in the movie and cancel his franchise again.wild mass guess

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77958: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:15:37 PM

And Wade Wilson and Slade Wilson and Tony Masters.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77959: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:18:37 PM

[up][up] The best part is, that's actually possible now.

If I didn't think it's a bit early in Spider-Man's series to really get the best effect of, I'd say a plot where Gwen really is an alternate Spider-Man from another universe would actually be pretty awesome.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77960: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:22:21 PM

At this rate, it's always going to be a bit early in any given Spider-Man's run for any of these stories. On the other hand, it's really pretty late in the day to still be treating Spider-Man as if he hasn't been swinging through theatres (consistently) for almost as long as the X-Men now.

edited 16th Dec '17 9:50:56 PM by Unsung

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77961: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:46:17 PM

This series explicitly has Peter barely actually starting to be the Spider-Man we know in the first place - it’s still features him figuring what he’s all about and deciding to stick to street level to settle the tone of he series overall.

There’s no way the next movie should feature the huge genre shift of multiverse shenanigans. That’s the same mistake Batman V Superman made, going for the big climactic epic plot that takes the character out of their standard before the series has even begun to explore what that standard even is.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77962: Dec 16th 2017 at 9:50:47 PM

Oh, definitely not the next movie. This'd be, like, fourth movie, in my head? If we get that far. But at some point we've got to stop hitting the reset button, and just accept that parts will be recast, but the character will endure.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#77963: Dec 16th 2017 at 10:30:06 PM

Why does Marvel hate MJ?

And pls no killing off Gwen Stacy.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#77964: Dec 16th 2017 at 11:35:00 PM

Again this depends on Sony if they're gonna let Marvel use Gwen.

Just Makima.
Nyte Since: Oct, 2017
#77965: Dec 17th 2017 at 12:52:39 AM

What new Phase Four movies would you guys like to see? They're going to drop info on 20 upcoming movies in 2018, I believe. I'm not talking sequels to established MCU stars, but new stuff in general.

Some I would like include:

  • X-Men (reboot) - Practically guaranteed after the Fox buyout. While no one can deny there were good Fox X-Men movies before, there is so much they can do with this now that Marvel has it.
  • Fantastic Four (reboot) - Same as the above. Finally, we can get a good FF movie.
  • Nova - We've seen the Nova Corps. in GotG, but no sign of Richard Rider. I think a movie for him should be made, to give us another perspective of the cosmos.
  • Thunderbolts - A villain team-up that could be the best live-action Suicide Squad movie never made.
  • Young Avengers - Like X-Men/FF, this is now possible even though few non-comic fans would've considered it before — much like GotG. The story has a mix of young superheroes taking on identities based off their heroes, with elements of Fantastic Four, cosmic aliens, and mutants.
  • X-23 - Unrelated the Logan's take on it, and the planned spin-off Fox was going to make before the buyout. I think another female-led, truer-to-the-text take superhero movie would do well for the MCU. She's a fan-favorite, and Logan established her to general audiences.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#77966: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:46:02 AM

Honestly doing an X-23 film that isn't a carry-on from Logan, would be really lame imo. And not using Dafne Keen again would be even more so.

Nyte Since: Oct, 2017
#77967: Dec 17th 2017 at 1:55:14 AM

What I was referring to is a Truer to the Text version, because while Fox's take was great I think it's important to establish the MCU version as being different from the past.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77968: Dec 17th 2017 at 2:50:32 AM

Michelle came more off as an expy of Jessica Jones secretly stalking Peter than MJ. But then, I don't even think that they should introduce MJ that early. Peter first needs to go to college. There is no need for him to meet the love of his live now. And thankfully, they haven't locked themselves in with Michelle, they can always claim that the MJ was just a nod to the comics and introduce a proper Mary Jane Watson later. Because we never really got a proper version of her (emphasis on "proper").

Also, I think that writers who are against a character being married are just lazy. Assuming that the Disney/Fox deal holds and we actually make it with Spider-man to his adult age this time around, they really should explore the whole Spider-Family. Without selling the marriage to the devil at the end that is just dumb.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#77969: Dec 17th 2017 at 4:33:21 AM

[up][up]

I would imagine such a film being significantly less successful than Logan. Like with the Amazing Spider-Man making significantly less than the Raimi films.

edited 17th Dec '17 4:35:19 AM by ManOfSin

Nyte Since: Oct, 2017
#77970: Dec 17th 2017 at 4:46:21 AM

If it's done right it can work well. If history has taught us one thing, it's that you should never bet against Marvel Studios.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#77971: Dec 17th 2017 at 5:13:58 AM

After Homecoming had a smaller audience than any of Raimi trilogy films(adjusted inflation shows this) I doubt that.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77972: Dec 17th 2017 at 5:29:30 AM

I think that's more to do with the previous three Spider-Man movies (one of them still part of the Raimi era) having sucked than it is a knock against Homecoming or the MCU.

Though at the same time, I would rather see any new X-Men movies being more of an soft reboot, where they recast and reshoot a few things and acknowledge that this is a new universe, but don't feel the need to start from scratch and retell all the origin stories and whatnot.

edited 17th Dec '17 5:29:52 AM by Unsung

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#77973: Dec 17th 2017 at 5:48:38 AM

If it's done right it can work well. If history has taught us one thing, it's that you should never bet against Marvel Studios.

Save from having some kind of soft (or hard) reboot at the end of Avengers 3, mutants cannot be integrated in the current verse, unless they are under an extremely dumbed down version that would scratch their entire history and social struggles.

There is no way you can in any way pull that mutants have been there all along but never mentioned in the 70+ years that have been covered by the MCU so far. That would go way beyond the Willing Suspension of Disbelief, especially as they already fit a ripoff of mutants in their universe - which didn't really work, even though it led to several interesting characters being added.

Even if you somehow restrict mutant issues to a state of the US (The Gifted takes place in the South somewhere between Georgia and the Mexican border, from what I gather, even though their exact location is sketchy), the kind of abuse and stigma mutant suffer from in their stories is way too important for the "big heroes" to shrug it off as below their paygrade - unlike the small-crime stories going on in the Netflixverse, which can believably be considered too petty for Captain America or Iron Man to show up.

So the solution would be to ignore all that, but adding mutants to a universe while ditching the main reason they are relevant - as social metaphors that, unlike most superheroes, can actually be somewhat connected to real-life situations - sounds even worse than creating an army of plot holes by forcefully saying that they were there all along.

Bottom line: either they need a Flashpoint-like event so that they can insert mutant characters without it sounding too stupid OR without having to remove what makes mutant characters interesting, or they are better off with two separated universes.

For that matter, I absolutely trust the MCU when it comes to crafting thoroughly entertaining movies, but so far and TWS aside they have not proven they can deliver serious movies. Serious moments, yes (GOTG 2 comes to mind), but tackling societal issues through the lens of a fantasy setting like X-Men, X2, FC, Logan or DOFP did, no. The same way Logan does not fit the MCU's tone, I am not sure the MCU's tone fits many X-Men stories - Deadpool notwithstanding, this one will have zero issues bar swear words and blood to find his way in the rest of the verse.

And actual bottom line: I think a Flashpoint-like event (whatever it is, Thanos unravelling the fabric of time when he is vanquished, or Star-Lord accidentally playing the universe's Brown Note on an harmonica, I don't know) is the best thing they can eventually do. The universe is getting older, some actors and actresses have been in it for 10 years, and it could be a great way to introduce new blood in mainstay roles, get rid of what did not work or what ran its course, and start over with mutants an established staple of the verse. And with Michael Fassbender playing Scarlet Witch's and Quicksilver's dad.

edited 17th Dec '17 5:49:45 AM by Julep

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77974: Dec 17th 2017 at 5:55:28 AM

Minor note: The Gifted is set in Atlanta (you can see it on the cop cars in the very first moments of the show and the cops announce themselves as the Atlanta PD in the opening shootout), which is also where it's filmed.

Carry on, though, I agree with the rest of what you said.

edited 17th Dec '17 6:01:07 AM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77975: Dec 17th 2017 at 5:56:59 AM

I disagree that the X-men movies ever actually tackled any social issues in a meaningful way. They alluded to them, but they never really addressed them. I can remember one single scene in the original trilogy which actually bothered to delve into it, and that is the dialogue between Mystique and Night crawler (you know, the one in which he asks her why she doesn't just hide what she is and she answers because she shouldn't have to). First Class was a step in the right direction, but then Dof P dumbed the whole thing down again.

I WANT a proper version of the X-men. Which is why I am so adamant that they should exist in a parallel universe to the MCU we all know an love. This way the option of crossovers exist, but they can be whatever they need to be to finally tell a great story about Rogue, Nightcrawler, Cyclops, Storm and countless other, instead of having them as background action fodder for Wolverine. And I want a complete reboot outside of Deadpool!!!!

Also, I don't think that there is anything to worry about the current MCU. There are still so many properties to explore, they will be busy for the next 10 to 20 years. With or without Ironman.

edited 17th Dec '17 5:58:43 AM by Swanpride


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