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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77801: Dec 10th 2017 at 3:02:00 AM

Plus "I am burdened with glorious purpose" might be the best line any villain ever uttered.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77802: Dec 10th 2017 at 7:43:57 AM

The Washington Post has a really good article about the possible merger:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/disneys-potential-fox-acquisition-shows-radically-different-responses-to-hollywoods-silicon-valley-threat/2017/12/08/a329e596-dc55-11e7-8e5f-ccc94e22b133_story.html?utm_term=.83c2548cee56

It's pointing out something which originally worried me too, but first dismissed as paranoia...but if the WP sees it too, I might not be totally crazy: What if instead of the Murdoch Family ceding their influence over the entertainment business (which, yeah!!!, the less influence their have the better), they are actually wanting an in to Disney so that they can eventually get even more influence.

That is a chilling possibility and I just hope that Disney is too strong to allow this.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#77803: Dec 10th 2017 at 8:03:28 AM

Murdoch’s kids are less bad than Rupert Murdoch himself. They don’t have the same ideological obsessions he does. They’re still not great, to be sure, but they aren’t going to suddenly make Disney super-right wing, if only because Disney has a very defined image and brand, and it doesn’t fit at all with being super-right wing.

I don’t even know how anyone would even do that. Bob Iger’s done a good job by mostly ensuring that the executives don’t interfere with the different branches unless they need to. The Murdochs getting in and trying to change everything would probably lead to severe production problems, and most likely would get bogged down in something random. And anyway, the Murdochs don’t seem to have been all that meddlesome with 20th Century Fox.

I guess what I’m saying is that the doomsday scenario people are pointing out might happen, but I don’t think it’s actually all that inevitable.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77804: Dec 10th 2017 at 8:16:37 AM

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I have no illusions concerning Disney, it is a company like all the others (the reason why I keep defending Disney is because I feel that it gets often more flak than it deserves just for being successful, and I would rather rake Disney over the coals for their cheapquels and awful Disney princess marketing than for doing great movies and presenting us with a string of female leads), and it isn't particularly progressive, but I also can't claim that I ever disagree with the values it stands for. It would be awful if that got perverted by the likes of Murdoch and his cronies.

Regarding the Loki discussion, here a deleted scene which makes Loki being at least coerced more clear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m3NpkeTOmk

I admit, I don't understand all of the dialogue, with the sound quality not being the best I am kind of guessing, but I love Loki's sass in the scene.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#77805: Dec 10th 2017 at 8:41:08 AM

I saw Homecoming two days ago and...it was nice, Peter was just ok for me and Vulture was ok, kinda above usual marvel villian but not much, at least a step in the right choice.

But in reallity What I like this movie are two thigns: one is to see the world of marvel post avenger, with aliens arm dealers and how crimes benefict for it, finally we see how marvel world deal with it rather than just be there, also I kinda like secondary chararters, they were nice.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#77806: Dec 10th 2017 at 9:08:49 AM

I saw Loki's actions in The Avengers as more of his daddy issues/inferiority complex appearing. Like he tried to commit genocide in the first Thor film just to prove to daddy Odin that he could be a goo ruler and "the better son." He says as much himself.

Well that didn't work out, thanks to Thor. So in Avengers he's essentially going "fine, you think that you're so great. Lets see how you like it when I'm ruling the planet/people that you love so much. That'll prove to you and Odin that I'm awesome." And the "conqueror" posturing is just that, posturing. Heck it's pointed out to him repeatedly in the film itself that he's not good at it (being a ruler or a conqueror).

Also he was clearly terrified of Thanos and if you look at him in his first scene, he looks like he's been through some rough crap. Baggy/sullen eyes, thinner features, messed-up hair, etc. He looks like a drug addict going through withdraw. So he probably felt like he HAD to win this time around.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77807: Dec 10th 2017 at 10:59:57 AM

I honestly love Homecoming for subverting a trope I particularly hate: The villain finds out who the hero really is and then dies conveniently.

Looking into the Marvel villains I have concluded that Marvel is pretty good about killing off the weaker villains and allowing the better ones to live.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77808: Dec 10th 2017 at 11:04:09 AM

It feels more like they had no intention of keeping them alive, in a lot of case, so they didn't really put a lot of effort into them.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#77809: Dec 10th 2017 at 2:39:14 PM

[up][up]A villian is only weaker as the story wanted to be or how it make it, now better vulture DOES something with that information, otherwise it would be pointless.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#77810: Dec 10th 2017 at 3:54:42 PM

I felt that the Vulture having that information and not sharing it or using it made him a better villain, because it made him more than just a one-dimensional bad guy.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#77811: Dec 10th 2017 at 4:10:03 PM

I found it weird Spiderman didn't have to rely on Spider sense,but then again it's a different interpretation of the character

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77812: Dec 11th 2017 at 12:01:22 AM

Yeah, the fact that Vulture owes Spider-man and is honourable enough to acknowledge the fact makes him more interesting. Granted, that won't keep him from maybe using the information later on, but I don't think that he will ever reveal it.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77813: Dec 11th 2017 at 11:22:35 AM

It doesn't help that in previous years superhero movies used learning the hero's identity for cheap drama. You can tell there's a bit of "well, we're going to kill off the villain anyway, so lets have them find out who the hero is for some easy extra stakes before that happens," repeated over and over with each new movie.

In some cases, it got to the point where they don't even do anything with that knowledge - it's just obligatory that they obtain it. And learning the secret identity thus became an early sign that the villain is going to be killed off, because the writers rarely have any idea what to do with that plot twist after the story is over.

I always compare it to that episode of Superman The Animated Series where they bad guy is about to get executed and literally right before they pull the switch he realizes Clark Kent is Superman. That time was just for "fun" / irony, but I can agree with being burned out on villains learning the hero's identity due to how often it's played serious.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#77814: Dec 11th 2017 at 11:26:07 AM

New Black Panther trailer with a lot of new footage

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#77815: Dec 11th 2017 at 12:02:53 PM

Patrick H Willems has a piece talking about the effect the MCU has had on storytelling in films.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77816: Dec 11th 2017 at 2:03:27 PM

So, if anyone is interested, my post about Malekith is up:

https://swanpride3.wordpress.com/2017/12/11/marvel-musings-malekith/

Needless to say that he didn't do particularly well....

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77817: Dec 11th 2017 at 2:26:39 PM

Get rekt, Malekith

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#77818: Dec 11th 2017 at 2:27:46 PM

So one huge question floating in people's heads is: "If Disney really does buy Fox, therefore netting the X-Men and F4 characters back to Marvel, how would the inclusion of the X-Men and F4 be explained?"

It might sound a touch harebrained, but some people came up with an idea...

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#77819: Dec 11th 2017 at 2:47:48 PM

FF can be explained easily by saying they got their powers later than others. Mutants are definitely a bigger issue.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77820: Dec 11th 2017 at 2:58:08 PM

[up][up][up] He deserved it

[up][up]Without looking, which theory is it? The one in which Professor Xavier made everyone forger? Or the weird time-line merging one?

Fantastic 4 is fairly easy. I mean, considering what is recently going on in the MCU, it would just be logical that there is some worldwide organised Space Project.

I wonder if there is any chance that they switch the nationalities of the F4 around a little bit? The Avengers are way too US-dominated....

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#77821: Dec 11th 2017 at 3:19:25 PM

[up]

-Ahem!-

So apparently, there's a rumor brewing saying Onslaught might appear in X-Men: Dark Phoenix on account of how the film synopsis makes mention of Charles Xavier's "growing ego." From there, people assume that the third act in Dark Phoenix might have a duel between the Phoenix and Onslaught. (If you're curious, you can read more about it here.)

Since Infinity War and Avengers 4 involve the Infinity Gauntlet, and the Gauntlet has the power to bend reality and the original Onslaught story involved all the heroes "dying", people deduce that Marvel Studios can squeeze the Mutants into the MCU by doing a semi-adaptation of Heroes Reborn.

Like I said, harebrained. But still interesting, no?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77822: Dec 11th 2017 at 3:30:54 PM

Yeah...unlikely.

I honestly don't really get why so many people are so dead set on having this version of the X-men in the MCU. This is the perfect opportunity to reboot and do them right this time around.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#77823: Dec 11th 2017 at 3:31:17 PM

It's same set of problems that keeps the MCU tv shows from being so much as referenced in the films, so no.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#77824: Dec 11th 2017 at 3:48:54 PM

Not on the current topic, but that new Black Panther story reminded me of something I had been thinking when the next most recent trailer came out. It's this line from Klaw about how El Dorado is real, and people (well Europeans/Westerners specifically) have been looking for it in the wrong place.

I thought it was clever, because it reminded me of this discussion in one of the Johanes Cabal books about the legend of Prester John and how as Europeans became aware of more outside regions and didn't find Prester John's kingdom in any of them, the rumored location of the kingdom kept moving. I hadn't made a connection until now between the El Dorado legend and the Prester John one nor between one or both of them and Wakanda, but Wakanda really is in that tradition.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#77825: Dec 11th 2017 at 3:49:35 PM

Speaking of the "Disney buying Fox" thing; look lively, people!

We might hear something final in mere days.

Though the article points out that there'll be some huge scrutiny or something like that, so everyone keep your collective pants on.


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