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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#77751: Dec 9th 2017 at 12:52:07 PM

They made it clear Loki wasn't exactly stable in terms of sanity in Avengers.

Just Makima.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77752: Dec 9th 2017 at 12:55:27 PM

See, Loki killing and torturing for lulz kinda made sense, in the “screw you Thor, you like this realm so I’m gonna be horrible to the humans” sense. Buuuuut...

Thanos wants tesseract. Thanos doesn’t seem to care about Earth. Loki could grab the tesseract and portal it back to Thanos pretty easily if he didn’t do the whole New York invasion thing. So why would Thanos let him? Why wouldn’t Thanos want Loki to grab the cube and bring it straight back? And for that matter, Ronan walks off with the power gem instead of giving it to Thanos. Why involve Ronan at all? Why aren’t Gamora and Nebula fetching the orb on their own??????

edited 9th Dec '17 12:59:29 PM by wisewillow

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77753: Dec 9th 2017 at 1:20:52 PM

Regarding the Tesseract, I don't know if you can pull it through a portal when it is generating the actual portal

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#77754: Dec 9th 2017 at 1:21:17 PM

I would be willing to bet that Loki plays the Mephisto role in this story.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#77755: Dec 9th 2017 at 1:25:04 PM

I think the idea was less "I don't want to do bad things and go to a worse hell when I die" and more "I don't want to do bad things and summon the Devil to collect on my soul".

I mean, he is the collections agent. So....

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#77756: Dec 9th 2017 at 1:37:49 PM

And here we have our first trailer for Jessica Jones Season 2, returning to us on March 8th, 2018. And continuing the usage of damn good music in the trailers for the different Netflix shows, they're using Barracuda by Heart. Fitting song for Jessica, come to think of it.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77757: Dec 9th 2017 at 1:50:48 PM

How amazing would it be if she was talking to Peter Parker?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77758: Dec 9th 2017 at 2:23:22 PM

March 8? Can't wait....

Looks like she tries to figure our where her powers came from this time around.

DeathsApprentice The Ultimate Lifeform from The Ark Since: Aug, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
The Ultimate Lifeform
#77759: Dec 9th 2017 at 2:55:31 PM

I am very excited! Why is March so far away? sad

When we're done, there won't be anything left.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#77760: Dec 9th 2017 at 2:57:41 PM

Was Loki ever characterized as the god of chaos or mischief explicitly? I feel like the earlier films tried to shy away from such things, so a lot of the Whedon bashing over Loki seems like part of the post-hoc hate-on for him over AOU (e.g. blaming him for literally every problem with the MCU under the sun including films and business decisions he had zero involvement in, or things they previously liked from Avengers up until it became cool to think Avengers was actually shit because of its connection to Whedon, and even spinning stories about how everything in other films is a hidden Take That! towards Whedon specifically) rather than organic criticism.

I'm not a big fan of Avengers Loki, and Whedon does have an infuriating problem with stepping over previous writers' work when it comes to his own films, but considering Thor 1, Avengers, Thor 2/3note  had three different sets of writers, the argument that Ragnarok was performing some kind of course-correction to restore him back to his Thor 1 characterization after Avengers (some even say 2, despite 3 having the same writers from 2) comes across a lot weaker given it's not even the same writing team in the helm, and given the plausibility of the theory that he was some kind of under mind control in Avengers. Don't get me wrong, 3 and 1 definitely have my favorite take on Loki overall, so I'm happy with it, but some of it comes off as deliberately misconstruing what goes on behind the scenes in order to further a grudgewank.

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#77761: Dec 9th 2017 at 2:58:20 PM

Regarding characterization issues in The Avengers: I've seen it stated in this very thread that it stemmed from Whedon liking Tony Stark more than any of the others (indeed; I've seen it said that he wanted to be Tony Stark), which led to him showcasing Tony to best affect, (giving him all the best lines, showing his actions in the best light, etc.) even if it meant mangling the characterization of everyone else in the movie. In fanfiction this is referred to as "author's darling syndrome".

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77762: Dec 9th 2017 at 3:03:31 PM

Are we still assuming that the Loki of Norse mythology is based on this Loki? The movies don't really seem to address that. (Though I haven't gotten to see Ragnarok yet.) The Loki of myth is different in a lot of other ways, admittedly— he's a trickster, but not exactly in a fun way.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77763: Dec 9th 2017 at 3:07:43 PM

The posters for Thor call Loki god of mischief; there’s various lines in the movie referrring to Loki being a trickster/prankster etc. Thor 2 has similar characterization.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77764: Dec 9th 2017 at 3:14:17 PM

Loki in the Avengers never bothered me because there was always the implication that there was more going on than there seemed to be, just like it is typical with Loki. His actions are never straightforward. If anything, I felt that Loki in Ragnarok was the most ooc, not because of what he did in the end, but because he was easy to see through this time around.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77765: Dec 9th 2017 at 3:15:44 PM

Eh, he was a little predictable, but I think that was necessary. Thor can’t be an idiot forever; he had to catch on to Loki’s antics at some point.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77766: Dec 9th 2017 at 3:25:05 PM

[up] depends on how great the plan is. But I don't mind that Thor caught on, I mind that Loki was pretty much the punching bag for everyone in this movie. They nerved him a little bit too much.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77767: Dec 9th 2017 at 4:17:26 PM

Eh, he had it coming. And I like Loki, but c’mon, Loki tried to genocide a planet.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77769: Dec 9th 2017 at 4:28:17 PM

Smarter than trying to genocide a planet??? Cause he definitely tried to genocide Jotunheim.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77770: Dec 9th 2017 at 4:30:07 PM

In fairness, Thor spent a large portion of that movie as a butt monkey too

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77771: Dec 9th 2017 at 4:42:05 PM

Just finished Punisher today.

Holy shit, what he did to Agent Orange/William Rollins. That might be the most brutal MCU death thus far.

Also, new JJ trailer is some good stuff. Love their choice of Barracuda, one of my favorite songs.

edited 9th Dec '17 4:42:51 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#77772: Dec 9th 2017 at 5:32:15 PM

Loki being manipulated by the Scepter is pretty much canon so I'm not sure why him being out of character in Avengers is such a big deal for so many people.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77773: Dec 9th 2017 at 5:35:02 PM

It’s canon??? I’ve never heard that. Is there Word of God that I missed?

edited 9th Dec '17 5:35:33 PM by wisewillow

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#77774: Dec 9th 2017 at 5:41:21 PM

I said pretty much. It was never explicitly stated but I think it's implied so strongly that it's a safe assumption. By now we know for a fact that the scepter can manipulate people because it has the Mind Stone.

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#77775: Dec 9th 2017 at 5:45:33 PM

The film definitely implies Loki’s scepter played a role in the “put on the suit” argument. Don’t recall any implication that it affected Loki though.

Speaking of Loki, this gif from Ragnarok is hilarious.

edited 9th Dec '17 5:47:46 PM by wisewillow


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