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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#77601: Dec 6th 2017 at 9:57:41 PM

[up][up]nothing about the X-Men's premise requires them to be in the same universe as other superheroes and most of their best stories are self contained to their own little corner.

Plus, does anyone want the most remote of possibilities that Avengers vs X-Men or Inhumans vs X-Men will get adapted on the screen? Sorry but it ain't worth it.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#77602: Dec 6th 2017 at 9:58:24 PM

If anyone's excited about Marvel reacquiring the X-Men film rights, it's (reportedly) our good friend, Mr. Feige.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77603: Dec 7th 2017 at 2:10:30 AM

Comic are just different from the MCU. The MCU has a tighter continuity...that became obvious when everyone asked "hey, where are the other avengers?" after Ironman 3. In Comics that wouldn't have been an issue because the reader is kind of trained to accept that if he picks up an Ironman comic, it will be about him and not about the Avengers. The upside in this is that the audience is also trained to accept reboots. There is no need to stick with the current version of the movie X-men because, well, the franchise is overdue for a reboot anyway.

[up] As usual CBR's paraphrasing is misleading. I went back to the Deadline article they are referring to in order to find the relevant quote regarding Feige:

"He’s said to be eager to get his hands on the X-Men universe — Fox has Deadpool 2, New Mutants, Dark Phoenix, Gambit, X-Force and the James Franco-starrer Multiple Man all on the assembly line — and cross-pollinate the rich swarm of characters with the existing Marvel franchise heroes who show up in each other’s films."

There is nothing in this which says that Feige would want the current version of the X-men or even that he wants the X-men in the MCU. Only that he is excited about getting the rights and actually use them (which, duh, water - wet). You have to consider that there is a lot of stuff which is within the X-men rights which could be useful for Marvel even outside the actual X-men, just like it is the case with the Fantastic 4.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#77604: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:07:53 AM

Also, Xavier mind-wiping people’s memory of mutants goes against the X-Men’s core belief of mutant-human co-existence and mutants being themselves. Them forcing mutants to hide would ruin what the X-Men stand for and given Kevin Feige about what Sony did with Spider-Man in AMS 2 I doubt he go down a route that would betray the core of the franchise.

Given that he has produced X2 and Wolverine & The X-Men he understands what the core is.

edited 7th Dec '17 5:12:27 AM by ManOfSin

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#77605: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:10:40 AM

Anybody else interested in the idea of Wanda doing some kind of reverse House of M? Instead of taking away mutant powers she somehow gives a bunch of people powers. I'm not sure how I feel about it. It would be an interesting twist but it still makes some aspects of the Mutants difficult to handle.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#77606: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:18:44 AM

[up][up]The X-Men have pretty much been going against their own core ideals for decades. Hell, it took Cassandra Nova possessing Xavier for him to be outed as a mutant.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#77607: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:24:31 AM

[up][up][up]

I dunno about them being trained for reboots so soon. Many Sam Raimi Spider-Man fans didn’t show up for the reboots of the character according to inflation.

Losing new beloved characters like Deadpool and X-23 at this point in time wouldn’t thrill audiences.

[up][up]

Shit. That’s what I’ve been saying. Say that a House of M/Heroes Reborn event happened in past. Wanda had divided the Marvel Universe into different realities(XCU, TVXCU, MCU). Then have them come together in a Secret War movie like in the comic version. That way you won’t lose Laura and the Deadpool cast.

edited 7th Dec '17 5:25:37 AM by ManOfSin

IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#77608: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:24:58 AM

[up][up][up] Xavier mindwiping people to keep him and his a secret would explain a lot about why people hate and fear mutants in particular.

"Sir, why are you racist against mutants but not any other superpowered people?" "At least those moon bastards don't mindrape people into thinking they don't exist!"

This place is careless.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77609: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:44:19 AM

I feel that the X-men are better served in their own universe. This way they don't have to bend over backwards to somehow fit in the MCU but can be whatever they want/need to be. And if you want a crossover, you can always bring in the beyonder to shake things up.

But I am truly excited about the prospects for the Fantastic 4 rights. What they should do (maybe in Phase 4):

Movie 1: A silver Surfer origin story. It is the typical "be careful what you wish for" story with a truly tragic ending.

Movie 2: Galactus and the Silver Surfer encounter the Got G, who manage to steer them away from a particular planet, but are unable to stop him completely.

Movie 3: Galactus comes to earth, Silver Surfer finally gets his memories back and they trap Galactus wherever (negative zone?) or even manage to destroy him once and for all.

ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#77610: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:50:11 AM

[up][up][up][up]

They have never gone against their belief in co-existence. Because mutants were were known to the public before Xavier even met Scott and formed the X-Men. He never once considered mind wiping the world’s memory of mutants.

As for him being outed. IIRC, that had more to do with him being a X-Man. They were still doing the whole superhero secret identities things back then if memory serves.

[up][up]

Too similar to the recent First Class films. Which already explored Xavier hiding, mutants being revealed to the public, and leading to instant fear of them.

Another problem with that idea is you couldn’t use certain character anytime soon. Wolverine, Deadpool, and X-23’s backstories are tied to humans experimenting on mutants.

edited 7th Dec '17 6:07:58 AM by ManOfSin

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#77611: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:52:40 AM

I would like the FOX-men verse to continue for a little bit longer. Now that Bryan Fuller's past is catching up with him we might get to see mainline X-men films which feel fresh. I have a lot of love for the alternative history of the FOX-men, even if it was never realised to its full potential.

Honestly the thing that really bugs me about potential MCU mutants is that they wouldn't be able to do an alternative history. Not unless the X-men decided to go full men in black on it in the nineties. (which I guess would be thematically appropriate for that decade)

If disney keeps fox making their own R-rated X-men films that's fine with me. Just maybe double up on some characters and have some characters in the MCU too, even if there isn't an X-men team or Mutant threat there.

I want MCU Storm solo movie damn it.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#77612: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:56:00 AM

Don't you mean Bryan Singer?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77613: Dec 7th 2017 at 5:58:01 AM

Mind wiping the world is more of a Dr Strange move

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ManOfSin Since: Mar, 2015
#77614: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:02:33 AM

Singer was fired from Fox after he disappeared from set on the Freddie Mercury movie and apparently he did the same thing on X-Men: Apocalypse so it was the final straw. Never heard it had anything to do with his past catching up with him.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#77615: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:06:29 AM

Ah yes Singer is who I meant.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#77616: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:12:06 AM

I don't know why people think mutants wouldn't work. For starters, bigotry isn't suppose to make sense. There are Klansmen who are fans of Michael Jordan after all.

Just do what Age of Apocalypse did. Mirror the bigotry closer to real life.

And it's not like mutants being underground is impossible either. First, there's Wakanda. And if the bulk of Captain Marvel takes place on Earth, then there was a possible Skrull invasion that apparently went nowhere

edited 7th Dec '17 6:14:03 AM by NoName999

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#77617: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:20:37 AM

How did Age of Apocalypse do that?

Even beyond that, there's another issue with mutant bigotry in that it completely wrecks other characters depending on their position. There is no way audiences are going to sympathise with the likes of Tony Stark or James Rhodes if they're seen supporting a system that's near Nazi Germany levels unless you want audiences to see them as villains. Remember that scene in a Civil War tie in were Emma chews out Carol Danvers for not helping the X-Men during Genosha? You can expect something like that if the X-Men show up.

All in all, the whole thing is a mess best avoided. The X-Men's best stories typically don't feature the rest of the MU any way.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#77618: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:44:27 AM

[up]When Mystique Lawrence said "Just because there's not a war, doesn't mean there's peace.”

Also, they could just not have the MCU governments not be Nazi Germany. I mean we have actual Nazis running around right now. Just make them the villains.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#77619: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:49:03 AM

Marvel doesn't even have the guts to actually say Hydra are Nazistongue.

edited 7th Dec '17 6:49:14 AM by windleopard

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77620: Dec 7th 2017 at 6:53:17 AM

Mutants being able to remain hidden all these years is a different metaphor than mutants being openly acknowledged, and hated, for decades. That's a problem, for me.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77621: Dec 7th 2017 at 7:02:36 AM

Agents of Shield does

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#77622: Dec 7th 2017 at 7:12:57 AM

  • "I was on a mission. It wasn't personal."
  • "You did not just say that. "It wasn't personal"?"
  • "Skye, listen to me..."
  • "God, you might actually believe that. That - that is the twisted logic that they teach you when you sign up to be a Nazi."
  • "Stop. Wait. I'm not a Nazi."
  • "Yes, you are! That is exactly what you are. It's in the S.H.I.E.L.D. handbook, chapter one. The Red Skull, founder of HYDRA, was a big, fat, freaking Nazi."
  • "That has nothing to do with today."
  • "You know, you always had that Hitler Youth look to you. So it's really not that surprising."

God, I love Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77623: Dec 7th 2017 at 7:20:38 AM

Ao S doesn't do any story involving Hydra without reminding the audience at least once that they are Nazis. There are multiple scenes in which some Hydra guy claims "we aren't Nazis" and some shield Agent goes "You totally are". They also aren't exactly subtle about it. They had a whole episode last season in which they called the current US government out for their Hydra-like tactics, going so far as quoting the administration (some anvils needed to be dropped) which means they basically called Trump and his conies Nazis.

They are right btw. Before someone acts all offended and points out that Trump isn't a mass murderer: That is not what makes a Nazi. The only difference between the Nazis and the current crop of right wing nutters is that the Nazis had actually the power to force their beliefs on the world and turn them into reality. It is about the believe system, not just about actions taken.

Anyway, there is no good way to include the notions of giant Sentries and Mutant camps and whatever else the X-men verse comes up with in a world were the Avengers exist. It just doesn't work. Yes, you can do the more low-level segregation thing - Ao S already explored all this with the Inhumans and the watchdogs - but you wouldn't be able to do any of the truly big X-men stories.

edited 7th Dec '17 7:21:02 AM by Swanpride

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#77624: Dec 7th 2017 at 7:30:33 AM

I feel like a more toned-down version of mutant racism might actually help the franchise anyway. Mutants are meant to represent bigotry, but it always seems to stick exclusively to the low-hanging fruit like, "Hey, maybe don't round up people and put them in concentration camps and then mass-executive them for lulz?"

Like, yeah, that's bad. But are giant Sentinel robots really relevant to modern bigotry? Has any LGBT person ever been afraid that a giant robot from the sky was going to fly over and fire RPGs at their house?

X-Men adaptations tend to focus exclusively on the idea that the government is going to send death-squads to the house of every minority, with the moral of "Maybe don't do that," but that's not the shape that bigotry really takes these days.

We need more X-Men movies and shows and shit talking about things like how Cyclops can't get a cake for his wedding because the bakery refuses to service mutants, or how Angel is one of the richest men in America but still seems to get "randomly" frisked by cops when he walks into a mall or how there always seems to be a squad of people "exercising their constitutional right" to open-carry firearms just outside the Xavier mansion. They say they're there "to keep people safe" and nobody else seems bothered by it.

Here's an X-Men story for you. A cop shot a teenager to death because "he was trying to use his POWERS on me!" No one's even sure the kid was a mutant.

X-Men adaptations are in dire need of a modern upgrade. Sentinels are stupid. No more Sentinels. They weren't even that big a deal in the comics anyway.

edited 7th Dec '17 7:31:55 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#77625: Dec 7th 2017 at 7:38:00 AM

How about an Xmen story where the mutants don't have powers but just look different and are considered 'mutents' because of how they appear?

Also,I disagree with the giant robot hate,the Sentinels are awesome

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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