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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#77476: Dec 3rd 2017 at 3:08:30 PM

By the time Disney has shuffled all those rights safely back to Marvel, we might already be sick of Deadpool.

That's what people have been saying about superhero movies for how many years now?

they screwed up AIM

I always thought the movie actually left the door open for AIM to become closer to its comic counterpart. Just say there were a bunch of people involved other than Killian who weren't apprehended, and they were forced to go underground and become criminals since they can no longer use their scientific advances to make money legally.

edited 3rd Dec '17 3:10:05 PM by comicwriter

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77477: Dec 3rd 2017 at 3:10:12 PM

Hannibal makes a pretty good case for Mads Mikkelsen playing Mephisto, for that matter. What Could Have Been...

I'll admit that a big part of why I want Shuma-Gorath is just for the visuals— the massive size, the undulating mass of green tentacles and that mocking purple eye. There's a lot of personality, and he'd be a distinctive villain to put to screen, in a way that I'm not really sure I see them pulling off with Nightmare. It could be great, depending on the script and director, but I feel like Shuma's fresh territory, whereas we've had a lot of illusions and visions in the MCU already.

edited 3rd Dec '17 3:15:28 PM by Unsung

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#77478: Dec 3rd 2017 at 3:12:57 PM

I could see them using The Oath as the plot of the next Dr. Strange movie. They'd have to switch up screenwriters so the film doesn't suffer horrific problems with Show, Don't Tell, though. Also while Wong wasn't terrible in the last movie, most of the cast of Dr. Strange suffered from the Eight Deadly Words so unless Infinity War gives him a lot of good material he's already starting off on the wrong foot.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#77479: Dec 3rd 2017 at 3:49:55 PM

They can’t use the Leader, they already did HYDRA loads of times, the Mandarin is a quagmire I doubt they’ll ever revisit, they screwed up AIM, Osborn - if we even get him - is years away, and as fantastic as their spin on Zemo was it’s 50/50 on whether he would end up leading he Masters in this version (they could always use Justine Hammer or something, but with the way they screwed up her father he very name might be mud).

I'd say the Leader and AIM are actually still on the table.

While the Leader storyline was dropped, I think it could still be revived, they just need to make sure the movie explains where the heck he's been all these years and why he's a threat now.

With AIM they could just have the company's name and assets acquired by new owners who reorganize it into something much more in step with it's comic book counterpart.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#77480: Dec 3rd 2017 at 3:50:58 PM

Just say he was in SHIELD custody until the HYDRA incident, and now he's been in the shadows growing his power and biding his time.

And probably recast the role with a more intimidating actor. No offense to Mr. Nelson.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#77482: Dec 3rd 2017 at 5:14:38 PM

Well, an obvious villain for a future Avengers movie would be the Beyonder so they can do Secret Wars. The MCU doing The Hunger Games with superheroes: what's not to love?

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#77483: Dec 3rd 2017 at 5:18:10 PM

[up][up] MY CHILDHOOD!

(well, mostly just the TAS scenes, but still)

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77484: Dec 3rd 2017 at 5:39:01 PM

Honestly, they can potentially turn every villain into a good one and every villain which was good in the comic books might disappoint on screen - though Marvel has a tendency to make them more interesting, especially in the TV shows.

But there are still a few villains left even without the Fantastic 4 rights (though it would be great for Marvel to have them)...the Skrulls (the ones Fox doesn't own), The Beyonder, Enchantress....they could even pull out the Leader, Abomination or The Red Scull again. Even Graviton, if Ao S never gets around to him....

Oh wait...Graviton.....Sorry, need to leave a theory about the current season in the proper discussion....

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#77485: Dec 3rd 2017 at 7:35:51 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] The Leader is out because Marvel can’t make solo or primarily Hulk movies any more. He’d have to be the villain in someone else’s movie.

This wouldn’t necessarily be a problem for an Avengers movie, but the Leader - especially - is someone best fleshed out in a solo movie first.

Particularly because - established as being in SHIELD custody or not - we haven’t seen him in over a decade and he wasn’t even a major character in that movie. But there’s also the issue that thanks to that Hulk Embargo the entire gamma radiation branch of the Marvel Universe is largely unexplored, and you don’t want to have to reintroduce your Big Bad and take strides exploring mechanics that allow him to work in the same movie - not for an Avengers title, anyway.

edited 3rd Dec '17 7:45:41 PM by KnownUnknown

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77486: Dec 4th 2017 at 2:39:10 AM

I really would like to know if this distribution deal will run out eventually...

Anyway, they just need to tuck the Leader into a story, as long as Hulk isn't the head-liner, there shouldn't be an issue.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#77487: Dec 4th 2017 at 2:57:41 AM

[up][up]They could have an Avengers movie where the Leader breaks the Abomination and himself out and bathes a wide area with gamma radiation, creating all the gamma mutant characters in one big event.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#77488: Dec 4th 2017 at 4:30:07 AM

On the subject Disney possibly buying Fox once again..

So I read on Reddit that Fox doesn't own the rights to the Fantastic four,but they rent them from a studio based in Germany called Constantin Films

So even if Disney did buy Fox they wouldn't necessarily get the full rights

edited 4th Dec '17 4:38:22 AM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#77489: Dec 4th 2017 at 5:21:19 AM

That's correct, though I am not quite sure how this contract actually looks like. But in any case, I doubt that this will be much of an issue, considering that Constantine film has stopped looking at the international market a long time ago. They have done pretty well recently by focussing on movies with a reasonable budget geared towards the German market first and foremost.

Plus, I actually wouldn't put it past Disney that they bought the rights back from Constantine film directly after fant4stic bombed. But even if they didn't, Constantine film would be stupid to not just give Disney the Distribution rights and give them a green light to do whatever they want with the characters in exchange for a reasonable share of the profit.

For the record, though, the owner of those rights is technically still Marvel and has always been. Constantine Film has more a permanent lease which Marvel can't end unless there is a breach of contract (like failing to make movies on a general basis), and Fox then went and rented the right from Constantine Film. The question is really how those contracts are exactly set-up and worded.

edited 4th Dec '17 5:23:59 AM by Swanpride

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#77490: Dec 4th 2017 at 12:20:14 PM

"- I don’t like the characterization of Cap spoiling for a fight. I prefer the Civil War characterization, where he can’t look away if something is going south. That’s the tragedy"

Well let remenber that part was said by Ultron...which IS tony stark jr which mean tony do think Cap is soldier wanting for a fight, considering what he tell peter that he always think he is right and is dangerous go for that direction.

Also I didnt like the idea that cap can just "turn away from problems" considering he did so to hide bucky identity, have he told Tony sooner the final fight woudnt happen.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#77491: Dec 4th 2017 at 1:10:53 PM

[up][up] At this point, the only reason that the company won't return the film right back to Marvel is if Fox paid them a huge chunk of cash.

edited 4th Dec '17 1:11:06 PM by shatterstar

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#77492: Dec 4th 2017 at 6:47:47 PM

The Defenders, Episode Seven

"Some time ago." Nice non-specific flashback blurb, episode. [lol] That looks like something that someone put in the script as a placeholder and then they forgot to give a real description to it.

This dramatic conversation between Stick and Elektra does a great job of reminding me how much more boring the stuff with The Hand was in DD2. Man, do I not miss that.

"We've got to stop meeting like this." Did…did they pile Jessica into a squad car, drive her down to the station, and then carry her into an interrogation while she was passed out from a concussion? Because that's not how you emergency respond. It took a great deal of incompetent work on behalf of both the police and the EMTs that would have been present for a homicide in order to bring this suspenseful moment into existence.

There is literally no reason for them to assume Jessica is not a victim of the violent incident that resulted in a dead man and a bunch of unconscious people, and even if there was, there's even less reason to deny her medical treatment. This is police brutality, right here.

"What happened to the others?" "They're down the hall." Did they move everyone's unconscious asses into an interrogation room? Because that's even worse.

"What kind of person knocks out you and Luke Cage?" "I'm not sure you'd believe me even if I told you." That said, putting aside the offensively terrible emergency response on display here, Misty's in the right to be like, "Guys, seriously, the f*ck? Why am I being left out of the loop?" There's no reason to be snubbing her apart from the fact that she didn't have her own show and is therefore disqualified from crossover membership.

"Claire gave you a quick look; nothing's broken." Oh, Claire did. A terminated former employee of a medical precinct who happened to be in the building at the time did a once-over on the unconscious people the cops found at the scene after they'd already been moved, using whatever rudimentary tools she could find in the break room. Yep. Sounds like professional emergency response to me!

You know, if Matt had a broken neck, he'd be f*cking dead right now because of this shitty police work.

"Stick. She killed Stick." I love that it takes him a moment to realize that. It's a nice bit of morning amnesia. He goes from confused to figuring out his surroundings to reminding himself about what happened before he passed out, and only then does Stick's death hit him. And it hits him hard. Despite the fact that he and Stick had a pretty shitty relationship, he's still emotionally invested in the guy that basically raised him, and it still hurts to know that he's dead. This is some good drama.

"Whatever happened is protected by attorney-client privilege." "That's cute but cut the shit." Yeah, Matt, they found you at the scene of the crime. You're not an attorney right now. You're a witness. You don't get to play that card.

"As of right now, you're something more: a witness to a crime." Yeah! What she said!

"I did everything I could to avoid people with abilities." Bullshit, you did. You hunted Luke down and convinced him to keep using his powers to protect Harlem. Luke Cage: Harlem's Defender was your idea.

"This isn't power. Living underground in hiding?" Point of order, you're the only one who was doing that. Alexandra had corporate backers and a public faith and elaborate gestures of wealth. Bakuto runs an educational facility with students who go on to be prominent members of society. Madame Gao is, like, the Cthulhu of heroin. That one dude in the back, he hunts and kills wild animals for fun. Sowande ran a mercenary gang. The Five Fingers have lives and hobbies and shit and seem quite satisfied with them.

Much like with Alexandra, I'm on their side here. Elektra doesn't know what she's talking about.

"I don't care about The Hand." Elektra is not presenting a very good argument against killing her right here and now.

"My clients are exhausted and under emotional distress. I'm sure you can understand how much they need to go home." Matt is terrible at looking like anything but the most suspicious f*cking person in the room. Any attempt to try and extricate himself and the others from this police interview only makes it look more and more like they have something to hide.

"They call themselves The Hand. They're real, they're murderers, and they took Danny Rand." Good on you, Luke! Cooperation: because there's not actually a reason to be so f*cking secretive about all this.

"We can take care of this." Shouldn't have said 'we', Luke. 'We' implicates Jess and Matt in vigilante action. 'I' would have been a better bit of wordchoice; you've already got a reputation at this station, so playing up your status as the big vigilante hero could have drawn attention away from the other two. They're a lawyer and a PI; they've got their own reasons to have been there.

You know, this is bugging me. There's an assumption being made that if the police show up to apprehend The Hand, they're going to get massacred. The Defenders are trying to keep the cops out of it for their own protection. I don't feel like this has ever been adequately justified; we aren't talking about ancient sorcerers or alien invaders or eldritch horrors from beyond time and space. We're talking about ninjas.

In "Iron Fist", Danny got a handful of Triads to go shoot up one of Gao's operations and it went swell. The Triads kicked The Hand's ass, went home, and had a raging kegger. There's no reason to assume SWAT couldn't do the same. Keeping the police out of it is purely a genre constraint, and calling so much attention to it without any solid reason for doing so is not to the benefit of the series.

"I don't trust her." No shit, really? Could it be because she openly said she doesn't give two shits about you or anything you stand for? How the f*ck did that conversation end in such a way that Elektra's now watching over Danny while the remaining three Fingers impotently watch her through a security monitor? This isn't the first standoff that's ended in everyone waiting for the camera to move on and then putting down their weapons and calmly agreeing to call it a day, either. This show uses cutting away to another scene to cheat its way out of so many internal disputes among The Hand.

Danny is waking up alone and groggy with Elektra facing away. I will laugh so hard if he mistakes her for Colleen.

He does not. Hooray, cliché averted!

"I brought you a change of clothes." Good on you, Foggy. Secret identities are dumb but Matt actually has a really good reason for not wanting his double life to get out: it would have immediate and devastating consequences for him and Foggy that are real and not the typical, "Oh no, supervillains might target my loved ones who somehow manage to get targeted all the time anyway!" bullshit. It is self-preservation of the "I like my license to practice law" variety that motivates Foggy here.

And then like a dumbshit, Matt opens the bag and reveals the costume to the precinct for a few seconds so he can fondle his helmet. Because I guess Foggy's line about "a change of clothes" was too f*cking subtle.

I hope a security camera was staring right at him while he did that.

"That's why you dragged me down here?! To be a translator?!" Oh my god, The Hand's master plan hinges on Danny knowing shit and, like, paying attention to his teachers. They are so f*cking screwed! The others were right, this was a fool's errand from day one! Alexandra's doomed them all! [lol][lol][lol]

"Lucky for us, I do." There we go. That makes so much more sense.

"How do you know?" "Alexandra taught. I listened." I love how Elektra says that. It's so blunt and direct. She's explaining the concept of paying attention to him in a mocking tone that makes me happy.

"You expect me to open it for you?" How long ago was this ostensibly sealed away? Because K'un Lun is in China. The farther back in history you go, the harder it is to justify an Iron Fist not only abandoning the City of Heaven like Danny did, but running off to the East Coast of the North American continent. This seal can't be more than a couple hundred years old unless The Hand were super-interested in trading shit with the Cherokee.

"I'm free now. And you can be as well." And then she unstraps him. I will laugh so hard if Danny immediately punches her in the face. Like, not even breaking his fish-eyed pouty lip glare at her as he does it. Just stare, pout, stare, pout, PUNCH. Stare pout stare.

Dammit, they cut away to the precinct. Next time we see them, Danny and Elektra will probably be hanging out in a hotel room or some shit.

…there's no lock on the evidence room? Jesus, these are the worst cops.

No.' Do not have Colleen steal C-4 from a police evidence locker. I will never be able to take any of MCU Netflix's police seriously again if Colleen successfully steals C-4 from a police evidence locker.

"They think you guys kidnapped me." What? No, they f*cking don't. They think you helped your clients escaped. You've been suspicious as hell since you woke up.

Stealing from a homeless man. That's, like, Disney evil, Jessica. You are now a cartoon supervillain.

"They think that Luke and Jessica took Matt!" Seriously. Why would they think that? That is so dumb.

"But we're damn lucky he's the kind of man that doesn't let anything stand in his way." Claire is really bad at defending Luke. Her defense here is basically, "Vigilantism is awesome and you, a police officer, should totally ignore the law and just let my boyfriend do whatever he wants 'cause he's cool."

"Wait a minute, where's the chick with the sword?" Probably stealing C-4 because this episode has no respect for my sanity.

And now Matt's suited up. What a wonderful idea. That way, if the cops find him, they'll be like, "Whoa, where did the lawyer Matt Murdock go? He was supposed to be with Luke and Jessica, but instead they are in the company of this mysterious masked man whose identity may never be uncovered!"

When you're the only one in the group with a secret identity, it may be a better idea to forego the secret identity entirely rather than be seen with them in both guises.

"We're not leaving without him." "Then I guess you're not leaving." And cut away. When we come back next, Matt and Gao will be having tea in a local tea shop while Luke and Jessica discuss whether or not they should go to Midland and find Danny.

"We don't have to fight." Fighting's literally the only thing Danny's good for, so that's probably going to be a hard sell.

"Fighting is all The Hand knows." Uh, no. The Hand knows lots of shit. Politics, business, medicine, corporate espionage, organized crime, how to make amazing drugs to fix America's epidemics, the key to eternal life…they're very well learned in a ton of fields both mundane and fantastic. You're the idiot who's only good for punching.

"You sound like your master Alexandra, but neither of you know what I want." Danny, you don't even know what you want.

"The only difference between us is that I chose my destiny. You ran away from yours." I would have laughed so hard if Danny just turned around and booked while she was facing away and dramatically speaking to an empty room. She turns around and is just like, "Goddammit, just like that, I guess," and he's halfway up the elevator shaft.

The fight scene upstairs is awesome, but Danny and Elektra's fight looks like two ballet dancers pirouetting around each other and I just can't take it seriously at all. [lol]

Point of order, that pipe Luke ripped off the wall had a sign that said "WASTE WATER" on it. There should have been water running out of that pipe all over Luke's face when he ripped that out. He's free to throw the pipe, mind you, but Luke should be literally eating shit right now.

It's not like this is an abandoned building. They're at Midland Circle. It was clearly in use when Danny tried to rub his balls on the conference room earlier.

In fact, why do they even have pallettes of cinderblocks in the parking garage anyway? I mean, they're clearly here because they're conducive to a cool fight scene, but why does Midland just have pallettes and pallettes of cinderblocks in their parking garage?!

"I know what you want but you're not going to get it, because unlike you, my Master taught me loyalty." Bullshit. There's Danny doing that thing again where he just says things that sound cool. A "loyal" student would never have abandoned K'un Lun and f*cked off to New York in the first place. Danny, being here at all is an act of disloyalty.

"What's in the bag." The stolen C-4 because the cops are really just figments of your imagination in this f*cking episode.

"You've got a minute before the full force of the NYPD is here so I need you to answer this fast: how long do you want me to stall them?" Oh just long enough for us to detonate a bomb to bring down a skyscraper in the middle of New York City! I'm sure nobody's going to have a problem with that.

God, I hope Misty loses her badge for this. She's a terrible cop.

grin Is Elektra goading Danny into breaking the seal with his blind fury in a wild attempt to hit her? Because I really hope that's her plan.

Eeyup. And there it is. Congratulations, Danny, you continue to fail at everything.

"By the time I got here, the lights went out and they were gone." Good job stalling them, Misty. [lol]

"What is that?" The tattered remains of my sanity.

"If we don't end The Hand, sooner or later they'll come after us." I'm not following Colleen's logic here. She thinks bombing Midland Circle will cause every single member of The Hand across the globe to spontaneously drop dead like a Chitauri Soldier cut off from the mothership?

"They'll have us on obstruction of justice and domestic terrorism." Jessica remains my spirit animal.

"There's no guarantee that exploding this building ends their organization." SPIRIT. ANIMAL.

Danny is lying in a gigantic ribcage. Is this a dragon?

Eeyup. Giant dead dragon. Well, there's a reveal alright.

So. This episode had a couple bits I really liked, particularly the fight scene. But it also failed at cops on every conceivable level. Like, every level. Still, Jess and Luke continue to be awesome and I kinda wish they just had the show to themselves because they're easily the most likable members of the cast.

Also, I'm not sure Elektra's really got the chops for being the Big Bad. She lacks Alexandra's charisma, interesting characterization, or any f*cking reason at all why the other three Fingers would follow her. In the span of a single episode, they went from a coalition of compelling villains to Elektra's Quirky Miniboss Squad for no f*cking reason. They don't even feel like characters anymore; just colorful minions bound in service to the shittiest part of DD2. This is a huge step down so far as villains are concerned; Alexandra was funny and hard to take seriously, but Elektra's just boring.

Especially since by her own admission she doesn’t even care about the evil plan. Yet she's still following through with it because she's gotta do something to get the heroes to punch her, I guess. Alexandra had her flaws, but she, at least, had a motivation. She cared about something. Elektra's like one of those obnoxious teenagers who wears apathy as a status symbol. The only thing she seems to care about is how much she totes doesn't care about anything, dude. And that makes for a really shitty main character, whether as the protagonist or the antagonist.

I feel like this is the result of DareDevil's second season sucking so hard that it outright hijacked Defenders and made it shittier. That's what this feels like. And it sucks.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#77493: Dec 4th 2017 at 6:52:31 PM

The Hand's commanded by the Fingers. Without the Fingers, the organization collapses. Their goal also spins around digging up the dragon bones, entombing those bones under the wreckage of the Midland building would be a good way of keeping it out of their hands.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77494: Dec 4th 2017 at 7:08:04 PM

Yeah, the Hand needs those dragon bones. If the building collapses, not only will they lose their leaders, they'll lose the last hope of maintaining their power and immortality. It's not just Alexandra's personal health that was riding on this operation, it's the future of the Hand as an organization.

The lower-level grunts and officers might be able to stir up shit for a while on their own, but they'd be little different from any ordinary crime gang other than having ninja training, and they'll probably fracture and collapse due to the power vacuum created by the deaths of their leadership. I mean, shit, when your leaders are immortal, do you even bother having a succession plan?

edited 4th Dec '17 7:08:48 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#77495: Dec 4th 2017 at 7:21:51 PM

That's fair. And also serves as another stellar argument for why keeping the police out of this was stupid. As noted, The Hand is just an organized crime group with some ninja training. It has never been established whether even the likes of Bakuto or Gao can actually dodge a bullet. It doesn't come up. The only person who's used guns against The Hand is Frank Castle, and his guns did phenomenally well.

He saved the f*cking day with his ability to shoot ninjas dead.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I really wish Alexandra was still around. Having her killed by Elektra was an amazing twist I never saw coming, but this episode had the ill-fortune of having to actually follow up on it. That was always going to be hard, because Elektra...there's no two ways around it, Elektra is a shitty character.

They've tried numerous times to make her interesting in the comics and the adaptations, and it's never worked out because when you get right down to it, Elektra is a bland cliche of a character. She's a stock Badass Ninja archetype with little in the way of character definition or relatable qualities beyond that. If you have ever seen a ninja in a film or television series, you've seen everything Elektra has to offer.

That sort of works for her when she's Matt's scary Catwoman-esque on-again off-again girlfriend because it's a role that's predominately defined by how others feel about her, without her having to do things. But when she has to actually drive the narrative, she drags down any story she's in by her complete inability to be interesting of her own accord.

She's just...bland. And it makes it hard to get invested in her as a major plot-mover.

EDIT: Oh, and the Triads. The Triads also used guns against The Hand. And they kicked all kinds of ass too, as I noted in my reactions. Bullets >>> Magic Ninjas.

edited 4th Dec '17 7:23:17 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#77496: Dec 4th 2017 at 7:52:26 PM

There's no particular reason to keep the cops out of this other than because this show was kind of rushed and this whole franchise has a hard time coordinating crowd fights. While endless waves of ninjas battling an army of cops would be kind of awesome, they'd end up having to film around it because they just don't have the pull or budget to shoot that kind of scene in New York.

I always end up forgetting this, but I kind of like pre-Hand, pre-Chaste, pre-reveal Elektra. She's got this playfulness that's honestly kind of fun. If they'd brought some of that back she could've at least been an entertaining Big Bad, as opposed to her just scaring the shit out of the Five (well, Four) (I mean Three) Fingers because they know what a Black Sky is and we don't.

Danny being the key to the gate is kind of dumb. I can accept that the Seven Cities of Heaven were in North America, though. K'un-Lun's passage is in the Himalayas, but that's not the only portal they ever had, I'm sure, just the only one that's left open. That we know of.

Midland Circle only looked like it was a real business. Its entire staff seems to be made up of Hand puppets (yes). The cinder blocks in the parking garage were presumably used during the excavation. Hell, "We bought more bricks than we needed" might be a reasonably plausible excuse when they're trucking out all the bedrock they presumably dug up.

One little thing I liked, other than the big parking garage fight: I can't remember if the discussion over blowing up Midland Circle was this episode or early in the next one, but Luke being the last one to get onboard really felt like a nice, in-character beat for him. The guy tries really, really hard to do the right thing the right way, without it feeling forced or contrived. I like that. Not a lot of superhero shows really get that across.

edited 4th Dec '17 8:38:48 PM by Unsung

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#77497: Dec 4th 2017 at 8:14:12 PM

You know, this is bugging me. There's an assumption being made that if the police show up to apprehend The Hand, they're going to get massacred. The Defenders are trying to keep the cops out of it for their own protection. I don't feel like this has ever been adequately justified; we aren't talking about ancient sorcerers or alien invaders or eldritch horrors from beyond time and space. We're talking about ninjas.

Agreed. I really think that all the battles after this point would have been more awesome (and made more sense) if the Defenders had been leading an army of cops against the Hand. It would also help with next episode, when the cops just randomly go from treating the group as wanted fugitives to pretending their crimes didn't happen. Yeah, Danny apparently used the magic of money, but these aren't corrupt cops. Somebody would have told him to shove it and still arrested everyone. It would make more sense if they had just helped fight a bunch of magical ninjas under the bones of a dragon, since they would have known the Defenders were heroes and been very happy to leave the weird-ass shit out of their paperwork.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#77498: Dec 4th 2017 at 8:17:03 PM

I don't know.

An Iron Fist interacting with the Cherokee could be a really cool story.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#77499: Dec 4th 2017 at 8:34:26 PM

Well, if Bakuto got to K'un-Lun from pre-Conquistador South America, then at the very least they some form of contact with the Americas. It's not unimaginable that they were able to find that dragon fossil and put a seal there.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
shatterstar Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
#77500: Dec 4th 2017 at 9:43:45 PM

So, interesting revelation: Apparently the Fox-Marvel contract have a clause in case if 20th Century Fox is bought out by another company, Marvel will have the right back to the characters (namely the FF and X-Men). So, the news that Fox parent company is discussing selling their movie division meaning 2 scenario:

  • 21st Century Fox is bought out by Disney, Marvel can use the characters.
  • 21st Century Fox is bought out by Comcast (the only other interested buyer), the movie right revert back to Marvel.

Either way, Marvel wins. Feige probably chuckles and cash in a few favor he accumulate with Bob Iger right now.

Side Note: I think Disney is interested in the deal solely to enter the R-Rated superhero movie business that is making 21st Century Fox a fortune like with Logan and Deadpool without tarnishing their family friendly brand like when they founded Touchstones for the Pirates and Nightmare Before Christmas movie.

edited 4th Dec '17 9:45:57 PM by shatterstar


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