Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Well Big Boss and Cap both fought in World War II and are considered the 20th century's greatest soldiers.
Damn, now I want it to be revealed that Tony Stark started Les Infantes Terrible projected and used Cap's DNA to grow some partial clones of him.
Cap as Big Boss, Tony as Zero, Bucky as Miller, Wakanda as Outer Heaven etc.
edited 1st Dec '17 8:09:12 PM by MadSkillz
![]()
Who are the three Snakes, then?
edited 1st Dec '17 8:07:15 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!Well, there was that time Mr. Fantastic implanted nanites into criminals and political dissidents to make them more compliant, only for the whole shebang to mutate into a hive mind that resulted in Nick Fury turning into an insane, super-jacked nanite demi-god with the powers of anyone under his control.
60's Cap, Nuke and (surprise!) Bucky?
edited 1st Dec '17 8:10:59 PM by KnownUnknown
Punished Cap: "We will forsake our countries. We will leave our motherlands behind us and become one with this earth. We have no nation, no philosophy, no ideology. We go where we're needed, fighting, not for government, but for the world. We need no other reason to fight. We fight because we are needed. We will be the deterrent for those with no other recourse. We are soldiers without borders, our purpose defined by the threats we face. If the times demand it, we'll be revolutionaries, criminals, terrorists. And yes, we may all be headed straight to hell. But what better place for us than Wakanda? It's our only home. Our heaven and our hell. This is Outer Heaven."
Going way back to last page- I don’t like the characterization of Cap spoiling for a fight. I prefer the Civil War characterization, where he can’t look away if something is going south. That’s the tragedy- he wants to go home and have a normal life, but he can’t because 1) man out of time and 2) there’s always another cosmic/supervillain threat that he has to help with.
In Winter Soldier, following orders, he’s miserable- even arguably suicidal. His conversion at the CA is not that of a man spoiling for a fight; it’s of a man exhausted because he can never take off his boxing gloves.
Yeah, I didn't like Whedon trying to imply that Cap is something of a Blood Knight. There were more interesting ways to make Cap a bit more flawed instead of tacking stuff onto him.
Speaking of Cap, I don't know if they've ever done it but I'd enjoy seeing a foil to Captain America representing all of the worst parts of America in contrast to Cap standing in for their ideals.
And maybe a third character who stands in for the actual America.
U.S. Agent, maybe?
Don't know if you can really have a single character representing "actual America", honestly.
Oh God! Natural light!@Mad Skillz: WWII was The Boss and Cobras. Big Boss was a child soldier during the Korean War and in his prime during the 60's and early 70's.
Tony would be Cap's Miller, Bucky or Sam is Ocelot with the other being the Phantom. Clint is Gray Fox, Wanda is Naomi, Nat is Solid Snake, and T'Challa is Raiden. To explain: Clint has the formerly brainwashed soldier with undying loyalty thing like Bucky, but younger and has the surrogate family thing with Wanda who is kinda-bad/kinda-good but never gets it addressed properly, and Clint has the old friendship thing with Nat, who has the jaded, depressed raised to be a soldier/spy/assassin thing (and even the sterility part if you want to go there), and in CW she and he have the fight were they can't bring themselves to fully fight the other while she also does the MGS 2 Snake thing with T'Challa, who can kick all their asses, is vaguely magical, and has the revenge thing. And also the African thing, I guess.
Yeah, Team Cap (plus Tony) is basically most/all the major characters of Metal Gear
edited 1st Dec '17 9:18:38 PM by TheAirman
PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/TheyYeah, keep thinking a composite of Burnside and Walker should be introduced in the next Cap movie, or else should appear in a hypothetical future season of Agent Carter. I suppose that you could get some of that with Skrull!Cap. Like you could have an irony of him being more of a team player toward Ross (either one), including supporting more questionable things like Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.
Regarding the Cap as Blood Knight idea in AOU, I don't think it's totally off-base, as there was definitely an implication in the opening scene of Winter Soldier that Steve is something of a Death Seeker and his behavior toward Batroc reminds me of behavior from samurai characters in anime who are characterized as a very polite blood knights. However, where I think AOU was kind of off-base, is in the idea that Steve can't handle the idea of not having a battle to fight. Because I think there's definitely an aspect of his personality that because everyone from his past is dead (or so he thought), he couldn't/can't find much satisfaction in the modern world, except as a soldier, since that's the only constant left. But the issue there is Everybody's Dead, Dave, not that Steve is inherently fixated upon fighting. And as it is, he kind of addresses his lack of connection in the modern world in his friendships with Sam, Natasha, and Fury, especially when discussing PTSD and his "pop culture list" with Sam.
edited 1st Dec '17 9:21:29 PM by Hodor2
One of the writers or directors mentioned offhand that their original plans for the third Cap movie was going to be him vs. William Burnside before it was turned into Civil War. Not sure if this was actually a serious consideration or just one of many ideas considered or if it was solidified at that point.
As for when exactly the movie became Civil War, while I'm aware that RDJ asked for a payraise to increase his prominence in the film, it's unclear as to whether he was going to make a cameo in the original plan but increasing his role is what turned it into Civil War, or whether it was after the fact and the film was internally decided on to become Civil War to compete with Batman vs. Superman (therefore meaning people upset by that decision have Mis-blamed RDJ for this).
edited 1st Dec '17 10:19:16 PM by AlleyOop
I wouldn't call Cap a Blood Knight in Ao S. He is a soldier who has forgotten his way home, which isn't quite the same and the perfect continuation of his arc in The Winter Soldier. Even back than Natasha constantly trying to set him up with something is not just a joke, she knows that he has trouble to connect with modern times and wants him to make some sort of connection. In fact the moment in which Peggy says to Cap "Imagine it" and Cap can't do it is one of my favourite moments in Ao S (And I usually HATE dream sequences).
I don't think that Whedon goes wrong there. But what I think Whedon doesn't quite get is that Captain America and Steve Rogers aren't the same character. Steve doesn't necessarily stand for everything Captain America is supposed to stand for. Plus, he is an obstinate little shit.
Cap having a Blood Knight streak to him made perfect sense to me ever since Winter Soldier. He tells Sam he doesn't know what makes him happy, but when he and Natasha reflect on HYDRA's return:
Steve: Well... guess I just like to know who I'm fighting.
Ahhh, remember back when the idea of the return of Nazis and a clear visible divide between the good guys and the evil side seemed fun and fantastic...
To a post before, I really don't know where this eye-colour-changing theory comes from, but Tom Hiddleston's eyes are blue and always have been as Loki (except for in the poster for the first Thor). So while he wasn't under direct control like Hawkeye or Selvig, I agree to the other posts, Thanos definitely did something to him.
Which made me think of something else. One of the Black Order, Ebony Maw, has the ability to manipulate and persuade. In the Infinity War trailer, it is Ebony Maw who steps over the dead bodies, who apprear to be Asgardians and Gladiators. Maybe he forces/manipulates Loki to hand over the Tesseract and maybe he was also the one who manipulated him before Avengers. Loki looks beaten up and really doesn't look as if he's giving it away willingly, frankly, he looks petrified. You could guess that at first Loki and the others put up a fight but he eventually gives it to Thanos to prevent him from killing any more Asgardians, but would Loki really do that? There is no guarantee whatsoever that Thanos will just leave even if Loki hands it over, on the contrary, he would still wipe out all of Asgard as the ultimate punishment for Loki for failing him. Loki must know that.
Really? Isn't it just because of the lighting? I mean, Tom's eyes also looked a bit greenish in a close-up of his eye in Night Manager, but I recall him saying in an interview that his eyes are blue. (Please don't ask why I know this so specifically). Eyes do sometimes look different under different light conditions. And Loki having been under direct control of the scepter like Hawkeye is a pretty big deal, shouldn't anyone have mentioned it then; if not in the movie, I would at least expect Tom to mention it at one point, since he always takes a lot of time to think about Loki's motivation and explaining them.
edited 1st Dec '17 11:53:06 PM by Hjortron18
Wouldn't Bucky make more sense as Raiden?
Wanda is basically Psycho Mantis if he chose to be evil, Red Skull is Skull Face and the Black Widows make for good counterparts to the Beauty and the Beast unit.
Looking back on his first movie, it's a little suspect that Steve never considered any other paths to helping the war effort beyond fighting.
But Steve already does that so well
edited 2nd Dec '17 2:37:07 AM by windleopard
I mean, one of the Anti-Tony talking points in Civil War was that he essentially recruited Peter to be his child soldier.
My various fanfics.

I saw Avengers before Thor, so I never took issue with Loki's portrayal in the former. In all honesty, I still wouldn't even if I had seen them in order.