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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
A problem the movies are increasingly beginning to have is status quo changes happening offscreen, like Tony destroying all his suits at the end of Iron Man 3 and then being back in the suit in AOU with no explanation, or Tony and Pepper having separated in Civil War only to have gotten back together by Homecoming.
I guess not unlike the comics themselves, the MCU is subject to plot threads being dropped because of plan changes behind the scenes.
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Honestly, this is above all a writer problem. We will have to wait and see what happens with the current franchises, but that Got G and Ant-man have more or less the same writers which worked well for part 1 in part 2 reassures me.
You have to consider that Ironman had no script when it started to shot, and Ironman 2 was rushed and had a lot of writing problems, so at the end, each movie was written by someone else. Same with Thor. They changed writers with every installation because, well, they never quite hit the mark. But the writers of Captain America did, so they were around for the whole Franchise as well as infinity war.
In addition until Civil War, there was this committee who gave notes to the writing team. Feige got rid of it, most likely for a good reason. Too many cooks in the kitchen. It is better to leave the writing to those closely involved in the universe.
Whedon, well, in his defence he had most likely already written Age of Ultron when The Winter Solder explored Natasha and Steve on a deeper level. And I really don't think that the biggest issue is him being in odds with other writers, since my biggest problem in Ao U is him being at odds with The Avengers.
Anyway, the MCU has improved from phase to phase. And considering that they are doing something nobody has done on this scale before, they are allowed a few missteps.
More characters makes is a little bit easier in some regard, because they can now put inconsequential movies between the ones which will have a giant impact on the main plot line.
edited 1st Dec '17 4:35:12 PM by Swanpride
A lot depends on how you interpret Loki in the first Thor movie. Some people seem to think that much of his characterization in that movie was genuine, and things like Thor being banished, the revelation that he's a Jotun, or Odin going comatose were actual surprises to him. To me, the movie seemed to suggest that all those things were part of his incredibly complicated master plan (hatched before the movie began), so nothing we see of Loki prior to the climax is indicative of who he is as a person; it's all just an elaborate act he's putting on.
@Unsung- You allude to something interesting I wonder about. While I haven't read that run, I know that The Ultimates are infamously really Jerkass takes on Marvel characters (with few exceptions). So, I wonder if besides having a costume and to some extent plotting influence, it also influenced how much The Avengers snipe at each other in the movie.
Also, I do agree that Loki does change a fair amount between movies. Like although the take in the first Thor movie is good in terms of a relatively sympathetic Loki and also supporting the genocidal conqueror idea, he doesn't particularly have a sense of humor, except at the beginning. Which is a bit of an omission for a trickster god.
Really late to a conversation where most have said their piece, but Loki's eyes do change color in Avengers for seemingly no reason. I think we later got confirmation that it meant nothing, but most of the speculation in the last few pages seems like the kind of thing that would get confirmed via Shrug of God.
Whedon does have an ear for dialogue, but there's a balance to be struck between a natural level of disagreement between people with different beliefs and politics and the self-indulgent angst that we got in AOU. That continues to make sense for Tony, with his giant brain and his Peter Pan complex, but it doesn't work for the rest of the team. And this is the problem with trying too hard to make everyone fit the mold RDJ created. I mean, they even tried to do the same thing with Ultron himself.
Cap comes off as a little more stodgy and conservative and Loki as more unambiguously evil in Avengers 2012, and that definitely comes from The Ultimates. In Ultimates 1, though, I'd actually say the characters snipe at each other less than in The Avengers. But then, the Chitauri are a lot more horrific, everyone's a bigger bastard, and you can definitely see the cracks which cause the whole thing to completely fall apart in Ultimates 2. Basically Ultimates 2 will have you questioning how you ever thought some of these people were ever heroes at all (they're more explicitly a pseudomilitary strike force than a superhero team), so it's quite a different animal. And in fairness, fighting space monsters is one thing, but acting as world police on foreign soil? Yeah, we should pause to question that. This came out in the wake of 9/11, Afghanistan, and Iraq, it's important to remember.
edited 1st Dec '17 5:50:26 PM by Unsung
In Ultimates 1 they spent 70% of the story sitting on their asses waiting for something to justify their own existence and having conversations about who would play them in a movie adaptation
Forever liveblogging the AvengersWasn't Thor the only genuinely heroic one, but no one took him seriously because he thought he was the God of Thunder?
Then Loki tried to start Ragnarok in Ultimates 2 and everybody had to eat their hats.
My various fanfics.Yep. You're not really supposed to like the characters too much, is the thing. Like, they kick ass when they can be bothered, but they're jerks. All still a part of the deconstructionist wave of the '90s.
The Ultimates originated the idea of Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury. Most of the character designs for the Phase One MCU owe a major debt to that series.
edited 1st Dec '17 5:43:51 PM by Unsung
For as much shit as we give Bendis nowadays, and rightly so because he's become absolute garbage, Ultimate Spider-Man was so good that it justified the continued existence of a shitburger of a universe for more than a decade.
My various fanfics.Alright, since I've caught up with the MCU movies from 2015 onward, I decided to come up with a ranking for them (that will probably change over time). My opinion obviously, going from my least favorite to my favorite:
7. Avengers: Age of Ultron (only one I think is outright bad)
6. Doctor Strange
5. Ant-Man
4. Captain America: Civil War (this and Ant-Man were close and in fact often change positions)
3. Spider-Man: Homecoming
2. Thor: Ragnarok
1. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
I'll try and remember to watch Captain America: The Winter Soldier sometime since I often hear it's one of the best in the MCU. Not sure if I can be bothered to watch most of the stuff from 2013 and before.
edited 1st Dec '17 6:04:43 PM by XJTordecai
On my wave, passing oooooooonOooh, rankings!
Not on my list because I refuse to watch it: Doctor Strange
6. Avengers: Age of Ultron (I DESPISE this movie)
5. Ant-Man (Meh)
4. Spider-Man: Homecoming (Really liked it but didn’t get attached to it)
3. Captain America: Civil War (Some spectacular highs and some depressing lows)
2. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (The emotional themes!!!! The music!)
1. Thor: Ragnarok ( AAAAAAAAH
oh my god, Valkyrie and Heimdall and the characterization and the cinematography and the music and the KICKASS OF EVERY MOMENT.)
edited 1st Dec '17 6:18:25 PM by wisewillow
Not just originated. It contractually obligated the idea.
Fun Fact: Marvel made an agreement with Jackson over his likeness rights so that Ultimate Nick Fury could be a dead ringer for him. As part of the agreement, Jackson would be allowed to play the character if they ever made a movie featuring him.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub." I think the first time I've actually liked Tony was in Civil War and Homecoming, even though I can admit that they are following on from character beats established in Age of Ultron."
To me the best tony was in Iron man 3 since he was awfull state but manage to overcome it(sure it was weird he get over is PSTD but I will give a pass) I HATE dude bro from AOU and the awfull mess he is in CW.
Anyway, speaking of Tony and Cap...I feel a intersting piece of caraterization go away from Steve, the idea he was a soldier without a fight and was a little bit eager to have enemy to kick since the war was over, at least tony seen to think that way considering what Ultron(who is pretty much Tony Stark Jr) said to think in south africa.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"He's basically Big Boss now.
Squatting on T'Challa's couch telling him about this rad idea for a nation for soldiers
Forever liveblogging the AvengersPunished Cap- A hero denied by his homeland.
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Bucky: Why are we still here? Just to suffer. Every night I can feel my arm and my hand even my fingers. The memories I've lost, the comrades I've lost, won't stop hurting. It's like they're all still there. You feel it too, don't you?
edited 1st Dec '17 7:44:56 PM by MadSkillz
I mean, we've discussed it before but you could definitely get a wacky miniboss squad out of Cap's renegade Avengers. The Dead Cobrahound Avengers.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

While all the movies have varying degrees of Depending on the Writer, Whedon is the only one who seems to hold active disregard for others' work. However, he does come up with interesting enough material on his own and other writers are at least flexible enough to rework it and fold it into the overall characterization rather than fight back against what could've been treated as wrestling for control of the character.
edited 1st Dec '17 3:57:15 PM by AlleyOop