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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#76301: Nov 5th 2017 at 6:55:48 AM

I overall agree, and I think the thing is it needs to be built up well enough to have some sort of emotional weight. That was my big problem with Quicksilver. His death was genuinely shocking in that very few people expected a franchise-driven studio like Marvel to introduce a new Avenger and then immediately kill him, but because of that, I didn't get any weight from it.

Conversely I thought the big death at the end of Guardians 2 was beautifully built up and fit the themes of the story much better. If they do seriously kill someone big at the end of Avengers 4 like so many are thinking (my money is still on Stark) I'd want it to be handled more like the latter rather than the former.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76302: Nov 5th 2017 at 8:40:00 AM

Okay, but let's leave Thor out of it for now. I really don't want to know more about it, I have dodged the advertising for weeks for a reason.

On a purely academic level I think the notion that someone HAS to die is just a big pile of nonsense. There are barely any movies out there which kill off the main character in the end. And I honestly can't say that TV shows which treat characters as expendable are in any way more tense for me than those who don't. For one, you can usually figure out pretty easy which characters the writers really like and which ones are kind of expendable once the show sets a baseline (and yes, that includes Game of Thrones. I stopped reading the books long before the show even aired so I am not up do date, but I am ready to bet that characters like Danerys and John Snow are still alive) and two, in shows which do kill of characters fairly regularly the death is actually LESS shocking for me compared to when it happens in shows in which it is an unusual event.

Narratively speaking killing characters bears a big risk. For one, you block yourself from exploring possible future storylines, but there is also the audience the think of. Ie when I dropped Vikings after season three it was partly because I felt the narrative was gotten lazy and went for cheap drama instead of the careful exploration of culture it originally was, but I might have stuck around nevertheless if they hadn't killed off two of my favourite characters and pointlessly depowered the third one.

But let's assume a main character dies in Infinity war: This could be easily a cultural event which breaks all our hearts exactly because we spend so much time with the characters and know them so well and because there is a huge likelihood that the death will stick due to the timing.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#76303: Nov 5th 2017 at 8:45:32 AM

So guys, which hero(es) do you think will have the final showdown against Thanos in the fourth Avengers film?

edited 5th Nov '17 8:45:44 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76304: Nov 5th 2017 at 8:49:15 AM

Well, they all will be involved one way or another, but the direct fight...my money is on Steve, Tony and Nebula for sure. Maybe Gamora, too.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#76305: Nov 5th 2017 at 8:52:16 AM

actually nevermind

edited 5th Nov '17 8:53:34 AM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#76306: Nov 5th 2017 at 9:25:26 AM

Steve needs to be in it, if only for this scene.

STEVE: As long as one man stands against you, Thanos, you'll never be able to claim victory.

THANOS: Noble sentiments from one who is about to die.

STEVE: I've lived my life by those sentiments. They're well worth dying for.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#76307: Nov 5th 2017 at 10:11:26 AM

I want to see a Hulk vs Thanos

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#76308: Nov 5th 2017 at 11:13:10 AM

@Swanpride: You're overlooking one very important detail: live action movies and TV shows have to worry about the availability and cost of hiring the actors. There will often come a point in ongoing series where an actor will decide they don't want to come back for any more installments, or where some actors need to be cut to free up more of the budget. So at some point you'll likely have to write characters out of the series simply because you don't have the actors who play them anymore. And if you're telling an action-adventure story where the characters are constantly in life threatening situations, having them die in the course of an adventure a) is a very simple and logical way to write them out, b) makes the danger to the rest of the cast feel more real (so long as the audience hasn't immersed themselves in the details of the actors' contracts), and c) gives them a suitably dramatic moment to go out on.

So far, the MCU has been very lucky that they've been able to get Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, and Scarlett Johannson to reprise their roles more times than anyone who's ever played James Bond, but eventually some of these guys will not want to play these roles anymore, or will demand paychecks so large that keeping them around is unfeasible. True, they could recast the roles, like they did with Rhodey and Bruce Banner, but if the MCU is like a big screen TV series, then Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk are basically their pilot episode; it's one thing for a couple actors to be Dropped After the Pilot and replaced, but at this point I don't think the fanbase would accept anyone but RDJ as Tony Stark, or anyone but Hemsworth as Thor, and so on.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76309: Nov 5th 2017 at 11:44:19 AM

They weren't lucky, they ensured to put together the right kind of contract and pays RDJ a sh...ton of money.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#76310: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:24:44 PM

Thing is, if you pay an actor a shitton of money, then the actor will have a shitton of money, and offering them another shitton of money to play the role again will no longer be as tempting.

If you count his brief appearance in The Incredible Hulk, then Infinity War will mark the ninth film Robert Downey Jr. has appeared in as Tony Stark. That's as many times as Hugh Jackman has appeared as Wolverine, a role he's been very clear he is never returning to again.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#76311: Nov 5th 2017 at 2:37:51 PM

He had already been talking about possibly waking away as far back as Iron Man 3. Remember, it was a big deal at the time when he later signed a new contract to return for Civil War and the Avengers sequels. In fact I am guessing that is part of the reason why Iron Man 3 was clearly written as something of an end to Tony's arc, since marvel wasn't sure he was coming back for Age of Ultron at the time.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76312: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:09:08 PM

Yep, and if they had killed him back then, coming back wouldn't have been an option.

Though I do think that the reason why RDJ came back wasn't just the money, it was also the quality of The Winter Soldier and the script he got. Let's be honest here, he is great as Ironman, but Ironman 2 and 3 didn't really give him THAT much for his acting chops. Civil War on the other hand, that one really allowed him to shine.

Plus, currently more or less every actor wants to score a role in the MCU. Success draws in talent.

edited 5th Nov '17 3:09:27 PM by Swanpride

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#76313: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:12:28 PM

Of course they couldn't kill tony yet. That's thanos' job!

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76314: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:38:18 PM

I also feel like Robert Downey Jr has to like playing Tony Stark.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#76315: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:42:04 PM

Well, I imagine he's a fun character to play, at least.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#76316: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:43:22 PM

I mean, is he even acting?

My various fanfics.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#76317: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:47:50 PM

Well of course it's hard direct someone when they're not following the script

edited 5th Nov '17 3:48:24 PM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76318: Nov 5th 2017 at 3:56:16 PM

Apparently working for Marvel Studio quite fun now that Perlmutter has no say anymore.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76319: Nov 5th 2017 at 4:15:15 PM

And I'mm happy to hear that.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#76320: Nov 5th 2017 at 4:16:37 PM

The filming of Ragnarok sounds like it was a blast, honestly, although I think a lot of it was Waititi insisting that filming should be like that.

He sounds like a great guy.

edited 5th Nov '17 4:18:09 PM by Draghinazzo

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76321: Nov 5th 2017 at 5:18:36 PM

Yeah. Also, props for not including even the slightest trace of any romance arc in Ragnarok.

Can he direct every film from now on?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#76322: Nov 5th 2017 at 5:37:56 PM

What are you talking about, there was clear romantic chemistry between Thor and Hulk.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#76323: Nov 5th 2017 at 5:47:06 PM

The Grandmaster and everyone.

Spinosegnosaurus77 Ramen Fairy from Ontario, Canada Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76325: Nov 5th 2017 at 11:01:43 PM

Not surprising though. Thor had the better marketing campaign by far.


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