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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#76251: Nov 3rd 2017 at 4:50:25 PM

I've already have to deal with stuff bordering on outright hate in the Naruto and Fairy Tail threads, which yes, I still actually like

<Winces as he remembers the massive amount of vitriol he spewed towards both Fairy Tail and Naruto>

That's rough man. ...um...I liked the fight with those axe dudes in Iron Fist, cause I think they are supposed to be the same gang from The Legend of Drunken Master and Kung Fu Hustle, and those guys are always awesome for some reason.

Joy even got to punch on in the face herself.cool

There. Something good about Iron Fist. Oh, I got another one: Danny's sheer joy at the idea of all of them teaming up, because whatever we feel about them, you gotta admit he's got a point that all of them stumbling onto the same case is way too coincidental.

One Strip! One Strip!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#76252: Nov 3rd 2017 at 5:24:53 PM

Mothersbaugh, who has also composed scores to The Lego Movie and 21 Jump Street, says that some of the complaints from the video essay may stem from the changing nature of filmmaking. The reliance on effects means that more and more elements of a film come together later and later. And therefore, a composer is given less and less time to do their work.

"The composer has been getting squeezed over the last few decades. I guess sometimes maybe it works. A lot of times, and especially in the cases of the films they were pointing to in this You Tube thing, it started sounding like musical wallpaper," says Mothersbaugh. "I think that's what people were reacting to. It didn't sound like the music was written for that scene in particular. It sounded like somebody was just spraying the wall with some color. It was the right color for a specific moment but had no nuances to it."

Makes me wonder if live action films get storyboarded the way animation does. Would help a lot toward helping composers with timing and moodsetting even if the actual scene isn't finished until much later.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#76253: Nov 3rd 2017 at 5:30:15 PM

Some do, yes.

If you haven't, you should watch some of the videos of Simon Pegg and Edgar Wright breaking down their screenwriting process.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#76254: Nov 3rd 2017 at 6:42:48 PM

The problem comes in with the kind of editing studios tend to do lately. You can hack up the picture however you like, but orchestral scores don't really work that way.

edited 3rd Nov '17 6:42:54 PM by Unsung

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#76255: Nov 3rd 2017 at 7:03:45 PM

I'm kind of stunned that Ward's character took such a sharp 180 - prior to episode 6 he was just a one-dimensional dick (the flashback with him bullying Danny was laughable), but the way his character just unravels from the drug use and makes him a lot more emotionally vulnerable, as well as him getting fed up with his dad and wanting to live his own life was exactly what he needed to become interesting. I actually sort of care about him now and find that he's basically my main reason to keep watching now that Harold is gone.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#76256: Nov 3rd 2017 at 8:58:01 PM

Ward's got the best arc on the show, credit where it's due. But it just makes the complete absence of any of that complexity in the title character all the more frustrating.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76257: Nov 3rd 2017 at 9:34:45 PM

I return from Asgard having witnessed the Ragnarok itself.

Pretty damn good.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76258: Nov 3rd 2017 at 10:03:44 PM

Another aborted gag from my Iron Fist liveblog was that I was going to keep doing a "Hail Hydra" when Ward showed up and making comments deliberately mistaking him for Grant Ward from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Ward wound up being so hilariously, pointlessly, needlessly evil in the first couple episodes, however, that this wound up being replaced by various cracks about him being an avatar of pure evil fueled by human suffering.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#76259: Nov 3rd 2017 at 10:08:00 PM

I think The Hail Hydra gag would still have been appropriate

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#76260: Nov 3rd 2017 at 10:29:40 PM

I didn't find him to be evil, just a bland, one-dimensional corporate asshole. That might not have been as bad if not for the fact almost every other character was also bland, if not a corporate asshole. I'm not sure there was much benefit to delaying his arc that long either, or at least if they were gonna do that they should have given him something more substantial sooner.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76261: Nov 4th 2017 at 3:51:10 AM

I actually think that his was deliberate....the show does this switch and bait thing with ALL the characters, but especially with Joy and Ward...they start out introducing her as the caring one and him as the typical corporate villain. But the deeper they dig in the characters the more it becomes clear that Joy is actually the one with a ruthless streak while Ward isn't really cut out for this and just tries to please his controlling and abusive father.

Anyway, editing. I am glad that I am not the only one who noticed that there is something off with the editing lately. I mean there is naturally the mess which was Batman vs Superman, especially the theatrical release (who the hell thought that establishing shots can just be removed to save running time?) which was then topped by Suicide Squad (someone, I think it was folding ideas, even made a vid just about the editing problems in this movie), but even Marvel seems to struggle with it. ´Civil War is a great movie, but I think it would have been even better if some of the scenes had been better edited and in Iron Fist the editing might be the biggest issue with the show, because it destroys the great camera work someone did on the show.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#76262: Nov 4th 2017 at 9:58:56 AM

People can say that "well Joy being isolated by the men in her lives was the point, it was her story." Yeah, that doesn't make it GOOD!! I'm sorry but "we're going to waste the entire first season, basically making her irrelevant" is NOT a good story. It doesn't matter what they do with her now, it doesn't how crap her Season 1 story was. Season 1 Joy, is not at all interesting and feels superfluous to the show. It was a terrible storyline.

Again this notion that "well it's automatically good, because they chose to do it that way" is not true.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#76263: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:11:05 AM

It's kind of like Hope in Ant Man

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76264: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:18:55 AM

Her whole arc is about confronting the men in her life and taking back her agency and power as a person. How is that not empowering? Joy's character is great.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76265: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:31:29 AM

[up] Exactly! I also wouldn't compare it with Ant-man at all...in the case of Ant-man it is obvious that Hope was originally an afterthought at best and that after the director changed, some course correction was made, but it was too late to make her actually relevant to the plot aside from expanding on the father/daughter theme. Joy is relevant to the plot. She is the one who ensures that Danny's identity is proven and she is also the one who gathers the information to take down the hand. And she has a proper arc, one which isn't reliant on her developing an understanding for the men in her life, but one of self-discovery.

And yes, it is also the story about a woman being robbed off her agency by the males in her live but that is exactly what I like so much about it. We need stories like this. We need to explore how toxic this kind of dynamic is. And I sure as hell hope that Joy will be back with a vengeance and reclaim her agency, though I would really prefer it if she didn't do it in a villainous way.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#76266: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:34:32 AM

I don't bother talking about Joy. No real reason to get involved either way.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76267: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:37:30 AM

[up] You just did....

On a different note, I wonder if Marvel can simply disown the Inhumans and try again. Not immediately, but in a few years.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#76268: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:51:44 AM

Well I can't speculate on whether the Royal Family will appear again, recast or not, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if Kamala and some of the other Nu!Inhumans appeared in an MCU show or movie down the line. I think movie is most likely and would be my hope, in which case the only previous Inhumans character that would appear/be recast is Lockjaw.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#76269: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:54:04 AM

I think it's dead in the water,a reboot would wind up having the same problems short of making drastic changes to the source materal

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#76270: Nov 4th 2017 at 10:58:37 AM

And I sure as hell hope that Joy will be back with a vengeance and reclaim her agency, though I would really prefer it if she didn't do it in a villainous way.

Don't worry. She and the true hero Davos are only going to rid the world of the treacherous and selfish Danny Rand. I don't see any villainy in that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76271: Nov 4th 2017 at 12:27:51 PM

I think the Inhumans can work with the right budget and in the right hands. Though, yes, there would be the need to adjust the source material. And why not, I mean they completely rewrote Starlords backstory too and what we got instead was all kinds of awesome.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76272: Nov 4th 2017 at 12:31:38 PM

So Joy's entire story arc is feminist because it's her agency being robbed.

Yeah, no. Occam's Razor this shit, it's just bad writing.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76273: Nov 4th 2017 at 12:34:35 PM

No, it's feminist because she's taking her agency back.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76274: Nov 4th 2017 at 12:35:14 PM

Name me one instance where she's taking her agency back

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#76275: Nov 4th 2017 at 1:03:04 PM

The thing for me is that so far Joy hasn't had that big an impact on the plot. She let Danny back into the company, and that was one thing, but otherwise her character is mostly asking the male characters to let her be a part of the plot and being repeatedly denied, instead mostly just serving as an object for those male characters to worry about. Her guilt over the actions she has to take as a corporate leader contrasted with the ruthlessness she shows occasionally is ok I guess, but it's not that compelling.

I'm not gonna give a full assessment since I haven't finished the show yet but it's easy to see where people are coming from with their complaints, like basically everything else I heard about the show.


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