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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#76151: Nov 2nd 2017 at 7:39:21 PM

So yeah, I really liked The Defenders' three-episode starting buildup, but this was a pretty weak link. I really, really wanted to see Sowande's fight with Luke. His whole attack-your-power-points schtick could've been an epic battle-of-attrition kind of fight, and I always like those (hence why I like a a lot of Daredevil fights).

Anyway, yes, the fight scenes here really don't make good use of Jessica or Luke's powers. I just wanted to keep pointing out— Jessica shouldn't drive a truck into a building, she should throw it at someone. That would've been great. Also, she can leap tall buildings in a single bound, so she should really be able to get out of the fray even if she can't keep up with the trained martial artists.

...That might help Danny, too, come to think. Finn Jones isn't really pulling off these fight scenes, stunt double or no, but what if he could get some Wire Fu action going on? He knocked Luke ten feet through the air. He should do that more often, just to give his fight scenes a different flavour.

edited 2nd Nov '17 7:51:31 PM by Unsung

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76152: Nov 2nd 2017 at 7:50:27 PM

You can read Murakami's (that's bear assassin's name) subtitles, right? There were some people who weren't getting subtitles for him, for some reason.

Also, Colleen is a badass supporting character with her own character arc and everything you say is trying to break her down as a person and reduce her character to a stereotype, even in the scenes centered around her character arc. It seems less like you actually have a problem with how they're writing her at this point and more like you want to have a problem with how they're writing her.

At some point, it feels like you're not even being sarcastic in your incessant jabs at her being "a weak asian woman who needs strong white male dick to save her (the phrasing here is also really uncomfortable and gross, that you're reducing these characters to nothing but their races, genders, and focusing on Danny's genitals like they're somehow the problem with him)". You're not acknowledging the character development she is getting and you're just complaining uselessly about character flaws that I feel like you're just forcing on her to have.

edited 2nd Nov '17 7:52:09 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#76153: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:02:15 PM

Sowande's monologue was my favorite part of that episode. That and Stick decapitating him, I love whenever Stick gets to do something.

Also it's kinda funny how Murakami exclusively speaks in Japanese but everybody else uses English as a common language. It's like he just wants to make the conversation sound weirdly bilingual despite being fully capable of understanding everybody else.

edited 2nd Nov '17 9:04:02 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76154: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:13:19 PM

Colleen's arc is that Danny walked into her dojo and promptly rubbed his balls on everything. This caused her to fall so madly in love with him that she underwent a High-Heel–Face Turn because nothing gets her motor revving like having her authority undermined in her own home.

She's also ostensibly a fighter but only in the sense that she is completely worthless in fights and constantly needs to be rescued, except one time when she defeated Bakuto. But Defenders promptly threw that victory out the window and had him effortlessly beat her ass so she had to be rescued again.

Colleen is only barely a better character than Danny. He's a misogynistic asshole looking for a mindless, woman-shaped sex object to own, and she's super-enthusiastic about being that object.

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SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#76155: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:13:55 PM

...Yeah, nope, I'm outta here. It's been fun, but I think Imma drop this thread like a bad habit.

My various fanfics.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76156: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:14:35 PM

Rage quitting is against the rules.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#76157: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:16:50 PM

[up][up][up]

...wow man. That might be too much.

Jessica shouldn't drive a truck into a building, she should throw it at someone.

I'm not sure if Jess has truck tossing strength. She's strong, but I don't know if she's that strong.

One Strip! One Strip!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#76158: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:19:29 PM

Yeah, maybe not quite. Hammer-tossing a compact ought to be within her limits, though. Mostly I just wanted to see her do it, and to see the looks on the Hand's faces when she did— I was still very fond of the idea that the reason Madame Gao didn't mention Jessica was because she had no idea about her powers.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76159: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:21:19 PM

Honestly my biggest problem with Colleen is that she's inconsistent as fuck (I had the exact same issue with her doing a complete 180 on teaming up like Tobias did). To me she's still salvageable but they'd need to fix a lot of shit for her to work. I never understood why the only good things the critics had to say about Iron Fist pertained to her, she's one of the examples of how awful the show botches everything except the Meachums (well not counting Joy).

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#76160: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:24:45 PM

I liked her performance well enough, she actually can fight reasonably well. A lot of the reviews that people have read were written based on the first half of the season, and she's really the only saving grace there. A lot of what ends up salvaging the Meachums and even Claire's finer moments don't come until around episodes 6 and 7 or so.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#76161: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:31:00 PM

Tobias, I suggest you tone it down a bit - you seem to be actively upsetting people now.

Oh God! Natural light!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#76162: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:33:28 PM

I mean, I'm just amazed that the review of episode 5 wasn't just "Why haven't they put Danny Rand in a concentration camp yet?"

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76163: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:35:18 PM

[up][up]That's probably a good idea, yes.

To put it more lightly, I think that Colleen and Danny are written so poorly as to be actively offensive. I am legitimately angry about how they're depicted, and that anger sometimes comes out in how I present them.

edited 2nd Nov '17 9:36:16 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76164: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:35:48 PM

[up][up]

Oh come on dude, that's just using Godwin's Law.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#76165: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:42:21 PM

The main problem with Colleen is that her relationship with Danny poisons her as a character - I don't have as much vitriol as Tobias does about it, but he's right that she tends to be willing to humor his BS and it feels wrong in a way that obviously wasn't intended. I'm guessing that this isn't going to get any better.

Harold I feel is the one character so far that's both somewhat interesting AND actually comes across like the show wants him to come across.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#76166: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:44:08 PM

[up] I'll agree with that - she does tend to enable his worst impulses in Defenders.

I do think she gets her moments, though.

Oh God! Natural light!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76167: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:44:13 PM

Harold's amazing. He was easily my favorite part of Iron Fist. ^.^

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#76168: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:45:08 PM

Colleen was a spy for the Hand who kept an eye on Danny and tried to turn him to them, which he resisted because he's been brainwashed. Her arc centers around her conflict with her former Hand master after she learned that the Hand actually was just as evil as Danny said they were. You said it yourself, she didn't try very hard or very effectively to keep Danny from hanging around her. This is because she wasn't trying and was only keeping up the charade of not wanting him around.

Also, again, just because he defied her authority in her own dojo doesn't mean it had anything to do with race or gender. He explicitly says what his reason was: that she wasn't being a strict enough teacher in his eyes because his only experience with martial arts training is torture and brainwashing turning him into a living weapon, and he didn't undermine Colleen after she explained that her reason and purpose for teaching was different.

edited 2nd Nov '17 9:47:48 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76169: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:47:54 PM

...so her plan to get Danny into the Hand was to act like she didn't want him around which would work because why?

And look, gonna be blunt, you can't exactly separate a lot of this shit. I mean you can if you absolutely refuse to recognize that maybe some stuff can be sexist as hell. It boggles my mind how people can outright refuse to acknowledge problematic elements in fiction that they enjoy.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#76170: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:50:08 PM

It's almost as if people can have different opinions on media that, at the end of the day, doesn't actually matter.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76171: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:50:48 PM

The reason it has to do with gender is because Danny's behavior is representative of a Patriarchal trend. Men invading, undermining, and disrespecting women in the workplace, in their hobbies, and in their home is a common occurrence.

In everything from offices to hobby shops to multiplayer video game servers, there are men right now acting exactly like Danny Rand to women exactly like Colleen, women who have been doing this their whole lives, who are skilled and experienced and none of that means anything to these men, because the fact of having a vagina automatically makes them lesser in these men's eyes.

Danny and Colleen's relationship was written almost perfectly to represent a common form of misogynistic control and abuse. The problem is that this was not intended and, in fact, Danny is supposed to be the protagonist. In any other show, he'd be the romantic competition character; the domineering boyfriend who the female lead has to escape from.

edited 2nd Nov '17 9:51:44 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#76172: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:51:20 PM

[up][up]

Yes, sexism doesn't matter at all.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#76173: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:52:34 PM

Does in real life, doesn't in media, especially when it really doesn't affect anything in said real life.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76174: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:53:10 PM

Media shapes people's worldviews. Behaviors are normalized based on how people see their heroes act.

edited 2nd Nov '17 9:53:24 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#76175: Nov 2nd 2017 at 9:53:59 PM

I would assume most people would be above that, but humanity seems to be really idiotic as a whole half the time, so eh.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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