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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#76051: Oct 30th 2017 at 6:54:48 AM

Darcy and Sif should've hung out more :/ I remember liking Frigga's part in TDW, but I don't exactly remember why.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#76052: Oct 30th 2017 at 7:33:37 AM

I would have split Selvig character over both of the females...Ie there is no reason why Darcy can't have Scandinavian roots.

Another thing which always bothered me is that Darcy is supposed to be a politics major (which in itself is a wtf moment) but then they don't even do anything with that. She could discuss politics with Thor.

Anyway, I think that Jane needs a companion if for no other reason than her needed some sort of sounding board for her theories prior to believing in Thor, and Darcy in itself is a fun enough character. What she didn't need is some sort of mentor figure to hold her hand.

And I actually think that the Avengers would have been improved if Jane had been the one kidnapped and not Selvig. They would have naturally needed to adjust the scenes between Thor and Loki if Jane is on the line and they would have to be careful to not go too creepy about it, but I think it would have provided a tighter narrative (and allowed us to skip the whole "yeah, that's why I never came back" nonsense from TDW).

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#76053: Oct 30th 2017 at 7:43:20 AM

Ha ha. Discuss politics with Thor? Oh that would be a hoot to see. She'd probably do a better job running Asgard than him

edited 30th Oct '17 7:46:49 AM by windleopard

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#76054: Oct 30th 2017 at 7:45:06 AM

Wait, is this the same Jane who ends up becoming Lady Thor in the comics?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#76055: Oct 30th 2017 at 7:46:32 AM

Just Thor and yes.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#76056: Oct 30th 2017 at 7:58:43 AM

Jeff Goldblum responds to IGN comments.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#76057: Oct 30th 2017 at 8:00:18 AM

Seriously though, to anyone who feels Jane and "Thor on Earth" are boring, go read Thor The Mighty Avenger! It's great! And adorable.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#76058: Oct 30th 2017 at 8:35:21 AM

Are we going to get a Lady Thor movie in the future then? Can’t imagine Mjölnir is going to stay destroyed for the rest of the MCU’s lifespan.

edited 30th Oct '17 8:35:37 AM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#76060: Oct 30th 2017 at 8:46:57 AM

Been a long time since I saw either of the first two Thor movies, but I definitely enjoyed them. I do agree that partly because of Selvig, the movies undercut Jane's informed competence as a scientist, due to a combination of the science in comic book properties usually being somewhat risible to begin with, and because the idea of Jane as "competent scientist whose kind of quirky and can lose her savvy when Eating the Eye Candy" pretty easily makes her come across as incompetent in the movies. However, while I like the idea of merging Jane and Selvig as well and/or giving Darcy the Scandinavian background (being knowledgeable of mythology and history would be a good way of illustrating her political science studies). But yeah, it's hard to see the relative chumminess of Thor and Loki in Dark World and Ragnarok if Jane was the one Loki was mind-controlling in The Avengers. Especially because as it is, Whedon's take on Loki is more evil or at least more unlikable than the one in the other movies (whole separate discussion here that's a dead horse).

One other issue I've noted, for which I do give Whedon some props, is that in the first Thor movie, because of the Fish out of Water and Break the Haughty elements, Thor comes across as kind of doofy. Although this is less of an issue in Dark World, I think it's more because of the Avengers movies, especially the excellent party scene in Age of Ultron (the best/only good part of that movie), coupled with that short about him and Daryl, that Thor has transitioned into this character that is more savvy and knowledgeable of Earth-customs than his human teammates would assume. To overgeneralize, Ragnarok is the first Thor movie where he's "in on the joke". Although I admit that it might have been bad for Jane's character, I think Dark World might have been better in part if it played up Jane's Fish out of Water elements. To minimize the potential sexism of this in presentation, would have been good to have her bonding with Sif. Especially because it would facilitate Jane!Thor later on, even if that wasn't in the cards at the time.

Edit- One other thought, which is part of why I would have liked a Jane and Sif friendship is that as much as I like Loki, I'm not a fan of how he's a Thor/Sif shipper and views Jane as the inferior "choice", and the movie agrees with him.

edited 30th Oct '17 8:58:19 AM by Hodor2

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76061: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:28:50 AM

Having Jane become Thor would require Natalie Portman to return and, last I heard, she was walking away from the franchise.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#76062: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:31:59 AM

Thor could crossdress..it's in the myth

edit:according to a myth someone stole his hammer so he disguised himself to steal the weapon back

edited 30th Oct '17 9:32:49 AM by Ultimatum

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76063: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:33:44 AM

Huh. Usually it's Loki that does all the cross-dressing. He once cross-dressed so hard he gave birth to a horse.

edited 30th Oct '17 9:33:51 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#76064: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:35:42 AM

They're brothers and Loki is a bad bad influence

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#76065: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:36:48 AM

You know it occurs to me that Norse mythology is kind of weird.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#76066: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:40:19 AM

Thor crossdressing to get his hammer back is probably the funniest of all norse myths. Loki, in his learned crossdressing opinion, helps him keep up the charade with his enemies (Frost Giants) who stole Thor's hammer to blackmail Freyja into marrying them. So Thor goes dressed as the bride.

The entire story mostly consists of the Jotuns seeing this bearded six feet tall mountain of muscle in bridal clothes and asking things to the effect of "huh why is Freyja built like a fucking tank out of a sudden?" or "why is she eating an entire boar single-handedly? and Loki coming out with some last-minute bullshit they somehow buy like "Oh she was so nervous for the wedding she hasn't eaten in a week".

This continues until the hammer is presented as a wedding gift, by which point Thor just grabs it and murders everyone in the room, presumably still dressed as a bride.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#76067: Oct 30th 2017 at 9:51:49 AM

[up]I will be both shocked and disappointed if that hasn’t been made a comic already.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#76068: Oct 30th 2017 at 10:44:04 AM

[up][up]Didnt loki also was responsable of Thor hammer being stole? there is a point were loki help the other god with the problem he provoked in the first place.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#76069: Oct 30th 2017 at 11:31:29 AM

Causing and/or rectifying problems, occasionally rectifying problems he himself caused, is basically Loki's shtick.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#76070: Oct 30th 2017 at 12:40:15 PM

To paraphrase The Simpsons:

Loki, the cause and solution of all problems.

But I like how "get help" in the current movie as well as some of the implications in the first movie that this kind of buddy comedy relationship of Thor and Loki working solving (probably Loki-caused) problems that's true of that myth is also true of the MCU characters' backstories.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#76071: Oct 30th 2017 at 12:56:53 PM

Loki literally killed the sun.

edited 30th Oct '17 12:57:04 PM by thatindiantroper

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#76072: Oct 30th 2017 at 2:50:07 PM

[up]The Sun shot first!

One Strip! One Strip!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#76073: Oct 30th 2017 at 3:11:17 PM

In the Norse myths, Loki's tale is one of escalating antics leading to evil. He's always a trickster asshole of some sort (one tale is chiefly dedicated to him denigrating every woman in Asgard just to be a dick about it) but he's fighting on the side of the angels chiefly out of his own self-interest, and the myths follow an arc where this role as the grand trickster helping everyone eventually starts to get into his head and he gets cocky, so his antics escalate, leading to his incident with the Dwarves in which his mouth is stitched and then in the fabled event he tricks a poor blind guy into killing Balder, fairest of all gods, by which point everyone's gotten sick of his shit and he went way too far.

People often talk about how Loki is "demonized" these days but he was always the Token Evil Teammate in the myths, and his character arc is essentially that of a Youtube Prankster who starts with tricking people in a park before starting to send death threats to people as a prank.

"IT'S JUST A PRANK BRO" - Loki Laufeyson, Prosa Edda.

edited 30th Oct '17 3:12:24 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#76074: Oct 30th 2017 at 3:29:50 PM

Though often the Aesir ended up better off than they would have if Loki hadn't gotten them into trouble in the first place. Thor wouldn't even have Mjolnir if it weren't for Loki antagonizing a Dwarf blacksmith.

edited 30th Oct '17 4:45:27 PM by RavenWilder

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#76075: Oct 30th 2017 at 4:36:38 PM

That they tend to either get more and more evil or more and more good - rarely staying morally ambiguous - the more their stories are told tends to be a thing with mythological tricksters in general.


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