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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75226: Oct 4th 2017 at 7:10:36 AM

That Colleen is part of the Hand is one of the better twist the Netflix shows have done. I seriously didn't see that coming.

Agreed. This was a much better reveal than Diamondback being Luke's brother was. It's actively benefits the narrative in two ways.

  1. It services the narrative of Iron Fist by fulfilling the promise of The Hand to be everywhere in shadow at once. It does what a Magic Ninja story should do; challenges the question of who the protagonist can trust, of what the protagonist can trust. The Paranoia Fuel has been starkly missing from the series up to this point; thus far, for all the narrative has turned on the actions of magic ninjas, I haven't gotten the impression that anyone at the Netflix team actually understands what a ninja is.

Finding out that, holy shit, one of your closest confidantes was a ninja this entire time feels like the first legitimate ninja surprise in Netflix Marvel's history.

  1. It benefits the concept of The Hand by introducing us to a more multicultural depiction of the magic ninjas, reducing the issue of Yellow Peril. Colleen serves to address a criticism I've had from DD2, that they had one opportunity to create a sympathetic and well-meaning character in The Hand and he conspicuously happened to be the only white guy in the organization.

If only she wasn't such a dumpster fire of a character that it's still difficult to actually credit the show finally featuring an Asian ninja who isn't mindlessly evil.

And while Danny isn't ready to doubt Kun-Lun I don't think that this was the point...the point of the scene is that we always want to believe in the people who raised up. Colleen believes in the Hand (or at least Bakudo's fraction) because they took care of her. Danny believes in Kun-Lun because they took care of him.

That part, I don't agree with.

Colleen believes in The Hand because they took care of her, yes. But then she turns on them almost instantly, not because she was given a legitimate reason to realize that they'd led her astray, but for love. She acts as all shallow love interests do, abandoning everything she's ever cared for and believed in because she has sexy feelings toward the hero's throbbing whiteness.

Like many things about Colleen, her loyalty to The Hand isn't actually here to provide any interesting or useful insight, but to instead create temporary drama for her primary role as Danny's woman-shaped sex object.

As for Danny himself, the issue is that he doesn't believe in K'un Lun. Not even a tiny bit. We have never been given any reason to believe he cares even the tiniest bit about K'un Lun. If everyone there died tomorrow, he'd be like, "Sucks," and then move on with his life; that is the Danny we've been presented.

He left K'un Lun at the first chance he got. All of his memories of the place are horrible. He betrayed his master's teachings without hesitation. He is, right now, insisting to Davos that he's never returning to K'un Lun. Danny stole their awesome superpowers and then left, intending to never see any of those people again. There's no reason to believe they have any strong influence on his worldview at this juncture.

Danny rejected The Hand not out of loyalty to K'un Lun but because it's the generically Good Guy choice to make. When tempted by the villain, the hero rejects it. That's the problem of Danny's character; he just floats between being an asshole that the narrative bends over backwards to defend and making Generic Good Guy choices because he's The Hero and that's what heroes do.

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Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75227: Oct 4th 2017 at 7:18:12 AM

"If everyone there died tomorrow..."

...Nobody say anything.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#75228: Oct 4th 2017 at 7:19:03 AM

The Colleen thing is a good twist with bad setup and execution

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#75229: Oct 4th 2017 at 7:21:27 AM

But what would a Danny that decided to go with the Hand be like?

Edit: Another page-topper, I see. This one is too paltry. I'll throw it back.

edited 5th Oct '17 12:34:46 PM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75230: Oct 4th 2017 at 11:24:49 AM

Naturally Danny believes in Kun-Lun...he is after all constantly repeating that his job is to fight the Hand and doesn't doubt for one second that him being the Iron Fist is some sort of calling, even when he abandons his calling, he is still following his teachings in a lot of things. Colleen is the same with the Hand. Yes, she helps Danny to escape, but that doesn't necessarily translate in her abandoning the Hand...after all Colleen has her own moral code, she isn't a food soldier but someone who was manipulated into believing that she was doing good by leading street kids to the hand. She wouldn't imprison someone innocent, and she owes it to Danny to let him go after he rescued her life and she lead him to the compound. It's really not that complicated.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#75231: Oct 4th 2017 at 11:57:15 AM

The problem is that the show hadn't earned the benefit of the doubt from many people. They'd done such a poor job of properly fleshing out character motivations, and had characters doing random things at random times for seemingly no real reason, and the last third of the show goes overboard with the whole "Colleen is madly in love with Danny" thing overall, that many people cannot help but interpret her turn as being because of "the power of love."

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75232: Oct 4th 2017 at 12:07:50 PM

Yes, she helps Danny to escape, but that doesn't necessarily translate in her abandoning the Hand.

Yes, it does. It literally translates to her abandoning The Hand. She helps Danny escape, and then leaves. No attempt to explain herself to Bakuto, no demanding of explanations or big "I did what had to be done," speech or battle for the soul of the organization. She help Danny and then flees for her life, writing off The Hand as a lost cause by her actions.

There is no greater indication of abandoning a way of life than literally leaving it. The same thing Danny did when the path to Earth opened in K'un Lun and Danny was just like, "Great! F*ck y'all and everything you stand for, I'm gone."

And she did that for no other reason than because she thinks Danny's just the most swell guy.

edited 4th Oct '17 12:09:37 PM by TobiasDrake

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#75233: Oct 4th 2017 at 12:10:48 PM

He's such a bad influence.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#75234: Oct 4th 2017 at 12:25:05 PM

A Danny that decides to go with the Hand would actually stick to a commitment for once if only because I imagine the Hand would be a lot less tolerant of desertion.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75235: Oct 4th 2017 at 12:56:23 PM

I don't need to give her the benefit of the doubt, I read her that way because she doesn't go with Danny when he flees. I really don't need her to make a giant speech to understand her internal conflict.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75236: Oct 4th 2017 at 6:36:37 PM

Also, she could still argue for the Hand after that episode.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#75237: Oct 4th 2017 at 7:50:16 PM

Alright, two news dumps:

https://www.avclub.com/marvel-and-netflix-pull-the-punisher-from-ny-comic-con-1819157426

Marvel is pulling a panel focusing on The Punisher at the New York Comic Con due to the recent mass shooting in Las Vegas.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/10/04/marvel-luke-cage-season-2-iron-fist-photo/

And Danny Rand is gonna guest star on Luke Cage, apparently. Kinda looking forward to that, not gonna lie. Jones played off of Colter fairly well on Defenders, under the Luke Cage showrunners he might be even more bearable.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75238: Oct 4th 2017 at 8:04:08 PM

The part that probably has me most excited is how this ties in with Misty and her new arm.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#75239: Oct 4th 2017 at 8:05:03 PM

[up][up]Damn, I was gonna see that panel too, It’s probably for the best, but still.

[up]I still want her arm to have mini rockets.

edited 4th Oct '17 8:05:26 PM by Beatman1

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75240: Oct 4th 2017 at 8:10:38 PM

Yeah, leaning off of the Punisher right after a mass shooting is probably the best option available at the moment.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#75241: Oct 4th 2017 at 8:42:56 PM

It's telling that I care more about what Wilson Fisk is doing in prison then...whatever this bullshit that's going on in the "main plot" is. No honestly every time it cuts back to this I get reminded of how terrible this Hand plotline is.

Hjortron18 Since: Jul, 2015
#75242: Oct 5th 2017 at 12:37:00 PM

Another new TV spot for Ragnarok:

I wonder though why when Hela destroys Mjolnir, they are in a field now instead of in the middle of New York. I wonder if Doctor Strange has something to do with it! Anyways, I am extremely hyped for this movie!

edited 5th Oct '17 12:47:23 PM by Hjortron18

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75243: Oct 5th 2017 at 12:51:02 PM

Have I mentioned how much I love that Hela's helmet claws can move like spider legs to make it change shape and structure based on coolness and practicality? Because I really fucking love that decision.

Hjortron18 Since: Jul, 2015
#75244: Oct 5th 2017 at 1:48:23 PM

[up][tup]

The constumes in Ragnarok look magnificent! They really put their best foot forward for this!

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#75245: Oct 5th 2017 at 3:45:21 PM

I love how many of the moments in this film are visually designed like splash panels.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75247: Oct 5th 2017 at 8:47:55 PM

It also appeared briefly in Doctor Strange, carried by Nico's mom.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#75248: Oct 6th 2017 at 7:52:32 AM

The South Korean poster for Thor: Ragnarok. It's based on a famous painting from the 18th century.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75249: Oct 6th 2017 at 7:53:30 AM

Why are Thor and Hulk having mansex while everyone watches and Loki sells tickets? I mean, they could be wrestling, but Hulk is sensually squeezing Thor's ass so I don't see it.

Hela in particular seems to really be getting in on this.

edited 6th Oct '17 7:54:34 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#75250: Oct 6th 2017 at 8:02:14 AM

[up][up]I love Odin's look of concern back there. It looks like he's wondering what the hell went wrong with his son.

I also believe that Doctor Strange is recording all this.

edited 6th Oct '17 8:24:12 AM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

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