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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75201: Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:56:13 PM

The Hand not knowing about Jessica is actually a minor plot point at the start of Defenders.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#75202: Oct 3rd 2017 at 1:47:32 AM

Honestly it's part of the reason why The Hand seem so unimpressive in the MCU imo. And not ever really having a counter for Luke is another example. They come across as careless idiots who don't do basic research on their potential opponents.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75203: Oct 3rd 2017 at 5:02:43 AM

Something totally different....do you think that Marvel will do some sort of special celebration at the beginning of next year? They could combine the 10 year anniversary of the MCU with the 100 episode of Agents of Shield and a big trailer for Infinity war.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#75204: Oct 3rd 2017 at 5:29:20 AM

[up] And maybe alongside the first trailer of the Marvel/Square-Enix game. smile

It's gonna be huge, isn't it?

Oh hai pagetopper.

edited 3rd Oct '17 5:29:49 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#75205: Oct 3rd 2017 at 8:26:17 AM

Didn't Season 1 of Jessica Jones end with her becoming at least minorly famous, with people calling her up out of the blue because they'd heard about her?

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75206: Oct 3rd 2017 at 8:33:42 AM

She saves far more people by being a detective than by being able to lift cars. The people who've seen the latter don't necessarily know her by name, since she's usually intimidating them, trolling them, or knocking them unconscious.

edited 3rd Oct '17 8:34:17 AM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75207: Oct 3rd 2017 at 10:00:15 AM

Joy Meachum.

I've been trying to find the right time to talk about this but it keeps slipping me by, so I'm bringing it up here as a bit of prediction: I'm honestly going to be surprised if Joy lives to see the end of this season.

I feel like her character's been walking around with a neon "FRIDGE ME" sign over her head since the show began, predominately because she's a Sexy Lamp whose narrative role is defined mostly by the fact that the three most important male characters are all emotionally invested in her.

Up until this episode, where I'm at now, Joy has been an object within the story. Her coming up with the blackmail angle was a surprise, but also doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's actually destined to work. "And then they blackmailed the company into letting them back in," feels anticlimactic as a resolution. Still, fingers crossed that she actually manages to keep hold of the Rand Corporation plot reins.

Aside from that, she's been defined by being shut out of the plot by male characters. She tries to talk to Ward and gets told to go f*ck herself. She tries to talk to Danny and gets told to go f*ck herself. Repeat ad nauseum. She's very rarely in actual distress and yet still manages to be relegated to the damsel role; everyone wants to protect her and that informs their actions, while she bounces around ineffectually trying to help.

Now that she's actually working with Harold, I'd like to think she'll be given more to do, but it's colored by the fact that even this represents her being given only what control the male characters will permit her to have. She didn't find the building on her own; Ward brought her here of his own volition. She didn't find her own way up; Harold opened the door for her, and he did that to spite Ward; by his own admission, he was about to reach out to her anyway.

Her reunion with her father, like most other things in her life, was guided by the male characters rather than being the product of her asserting her agency and being an active mover of the plot.

And that's why I'm totally expecting her to get stuffed into a fridge at some point. They talked a bit in the early episodes about how if The Hand is displeased with Harold then they'll totally kill her and Ward. Ward is an actual plot mover with narrative agency and an agenda of his own to pursue, but Joy is defined almost solely by the fact that Danny, Ward, and Harold would all feel a ton of manpain if she died horribly.

Just my two cents on where I expect this to be going. I look forward to finding out whether or not I'm right.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75208: Oct 3rd 2017 at 2:33:15 PM

Joy is definitely one of the more interesting characters in Iron Fist. I will say that where her character ends up is a tad controversial.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#75209: Oct 3rd 2017 at 3:15:35 PM

Well yeah because it comes out of nowhere. And that's the problem, not only does she seem largely superfluous outside of providing motivation to the men in her life (as stated above), but they also cannot seem to decide on what kind of person she is either. It randomly switches at weird times.

She feels more like a plot device than an actual character with actual agency of her own.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#75210: Oct 3rd 2017 at 3:17:21 PM

I feel like i'm one of the few people who didn't have a problem with how things ended up with Joy. It made a fine amount of sense to me. But what do i know?

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#75211: Oct 3rd 2017 at 3:21:09 PM

It doesn't make sense with how she was acting/talking earlier on in that SAME EPISODE!!

Again it feels like she's a plot device, and she goes whatever way they need her to for said plot with no more thought put into it than that.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#75212: Oct 3rd 2017 at 3:21:53 PM

Still watching DD season 2....

You know, in a lot of ways they're actually doing ok with Karen this season. She's grown tougher, she's driven, she has agency and moves the Castle storyline forward while Matt is preoccupied with other things.

Her romance with Matt in a vacuum also isn't the worst I've seen. It feels a little bit forced because season 1 seemed to be suggesting Foggyx Karen more, at least until the thing with Marcy showed up. Their scenes are ok, but it sort of feels like it was mostly done just to be faithful to the comics.

...except that, well that wasn't the only reason, because they wanted to establish a love triangle with Elektra and that's where it gets a little dicey. There were some articles I read a while back about how it kind of reinforces some racist dichotomies when love interests who are Po C are involved. They're rarely if ever portrayed as a legitimate choice and potential equal partner and more of a dangerous thrill-ride, opposite the wholesome white love interest.

And it's kind of a shame because I actually like Elektra, especially when their relationship starts to warm a little bit when they start working together and we get some hints that maybe Elektra does actually care about him (even if it's in her own messed up way) and wasn't just using him as a toy for her amusement. This ambiguous, unhealthy dynamic makes the relationship interesting enough by itself that the love triangle with Karen really is not necessary; you could excise it from the story and so far very little of value would be lost in terms of the story.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#75213: Oct 3rd 2017 at 3:36:10 PM

I think people just kinda misinterpreted what Joy says/does at the end of the episode.

Then again, i could be completely wrong. I suppose i'll have to wait till IF season 2.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75214: Oct 3rd 2017 at 3:40:26 PM

[up] Yo, maybe spoil tag the last part, especially since we were doing so well keeping her ultimate fate ambiguous. Remember that Tobias expects her to die.

edited 3rd Oct '17 3:40:38 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75215: Oct 3rd 2017 at 6:50:37 PM

Iron Fist, Episode Ten!

"Where are we?" "Home." I like the implication that while Danny was unconscious, someone stripped him naked and placed him in this bed. I know the obvious suspect is Colleen, but I choose to believe Bakuto did it. While giggling.

The point of stripping out of your clothes when going to bed is so that you can be comfortable and fall asleep more easily. When someone is already unconscious, this is not necessary. Taking off their clothes just makes you look like a creep.

"What happened?" "You healed me." I love all the vague non-answers Colleen is giving to Danny's questions. "The f*ck are we?" "In bed." Given how often he's done this shit to her and Joy, I am enjoying her uncooperative answers quite a lot.

"You told Danny." "Danny found out. That wasn't my choice." Only sort of true. Ward shoved Danny out a window before he had a chance to see Harold. It was Harold's decision to bring him upstairs and meet face to face.

"Ward found it difficult at first too, but after a while…." After a while he stabbed you to death and he clearly never actually seemed to buy into it until you rose again. And then he wanted out. Ward is not your go-to example for handling this okay.

"The blackmail. I want you to step away from that." Expected that. Harold's planning on solving the Rand issue himself.

Is that Kyle in the fishtank? Nice reminder that Harold's not all there anymore to cap off this touching scene with Joy.

"Who's they?" "Bakuto and his group." That doesn't actually answer the question. Again.

"You weren't taught how to recharge your chi?" "Let's just say the training went a little sideways." How about let's not and you answer the f*cking question? You also didn't know you could heal people, so clearly you either left the monastery immediately after gaining the Iron Fist ability or the monks in K'un Lun just went, "F*ck it, who cares about educating the guy who's supposed to defend us from The Hand? It's not really important. I've got shows to watch!"

Danny's ignorance about his own powers is a glaring matter that I want to see addressed, given that this is a character who gained his powers through training and discipline rather than a freak accident.

Also, I find it interesting how we have here an opportunity for a kung fu master to demonstrate his superior experience and knowledge over Danny and the guy is Hispanic. Puerto Rican, to be precise. There are three martial artists in this scene about harnessing one's chi through a spiritual kata, and the one Asian person is not only standing on the sidelines because it has nothing to do with her but is also previously established to be the shittiest martial artist of the group.

"Colleen, can you go ahead and let the kitchen know that we're on our way?" …and now she's literally being sent to the kitchen so the men can talk shop. Good job, guys.

"Colleen has spoken to me about you quite a bit." "That's funny. She's never mentioned you." Oh, my mistake. They're not talking shop. They sent her to the kitchen so they can whip out their dicks and have a measuring contest over whose property she is.

"Her power is far-reaching. We can't take any chances." Hey guys, I've got a quick fix solution for this. It involves bullets.

"Ever since I got to New York, whenever people find out I'm the Iron Fist, they want to use it for their own purposes." No, they don't. That has literally never happened. Gao wanted to kill him, Ward wanted him to f*ck off and die in a ditch, Colleen wanted him to go away and leave her alone, Claire's just kind of tagging along with his crusade. The only one who actually went, "Yes, I can use this for my purposes," is Harold, but Danny doesn't know about that. He was totally onboard with everything Harold suggested.

I suppose you might count the disappointing rendition of Bride of Nine Spiders, but she was clearly just baiting him so she could close in for the kill.

"The world we live in now is run by corporations, not governments." Oh, Christ. Is this guy's nefarious motive seriously going to be #OccupyWallStreet?

"Someone was there protecting this passage." I like how he somehow has double Iron Fists going but isn't actually performing any kind of superhuman feats. It's just standard kung fu guy vs. armed soldiers who forget how to use guns, seen in every kung fu movie ever. I swear, if Danny hadn't punched that door off the wall earlier, I'd be calling the Iron Fist purely cosmetic at this point.

"That's what you could be. That's what an Iron Fist is." What, a dude who punches guys in the woods? That guy was presumably guarding the gate to K'un Lun. Doing his literal job as the Iron Fist. Is Bakuto just trying to tell him he should go home?

"Learning all I could about the Iron Fist." How? We're led to believe that the Iron Fist hangs out in K'un Lun all his life, defending it for the brief period of time in which it exists on Earth every fifteen years. What possible lore would there be for Bakuto to discover?

This is like saying, "I became obsessed with the possibility that there might be life on Venus, so I spent years combing libraries in Greece for everything they had on Venutian technology."

Some things can't be Googled.

"That was the Iron Fist doing his duty. Guarding an entrance. If that's all you need from me, then you've got the wrong man." It's true. Danny Rand has never met a responsibility he didn't callously abandon. This is not the hero you're looking for.

"He did it, he did it." I really liked Harold's phone call with Danny. He's amazing at being reasonable. He's got a good Dad voice that makes it easy to trust him if you aren't being treated like Ward.

"See if you can trace back that call to its exact location." Oh, neat, this show actually knows that you don't need to be presently on the line with someone to trace a phone call.

"Thank you for all you've done." "I didn't do anything." She really didn't. He just showed up and started harassing her out of the blue. Honestly, this was pure luck.

"It's not my greatest moment." "I thought it was awesome!" Really. Colleen's students are rewarding Danny with praise for physically abusing a child. Okay. F*cking Protagonist-Centered Morality, man….

"You ever try to sneak out?" "Security's too tight." "And nobody really wants to." Bullshit, nobody wants to sneak out. Unless Bakuto's providing, like, free drugs and hookers to all the students, they're going to want to slip away. Shit, even if he is, teenage rebellion's going to get the better of somebody. That one line is the most alarming thing about this already unsettling place, because it indicates that these kids are being brainwashed.

There is simply no other way that a group of young adults put together from castaways that nobody else wanted is perfectly well-behaved and respects a f*cking curfew.

[lol] Big, fancy secret order and the best they can come up with for Gao is that she's still tied to a f*cking chair.

Oh. Never mind. They took her ties away.

"Punishment is so juvenile. And quite boring, I might add." "Not for me." "I'm not surprised. You're still a child." Gao is Best Pony for this episode.

"They are stealing your ability to trust. That is how they crush you." "Who?" "The Hand." Ooo, is Bakuto an agent of The Hand? Is this a magic ninja training facility? Because that's awesome if so.

"Colleen." "I wanted to tell you from the beginning." No, you didn't. You wanted him to f*ck off and leave you alone for several episodes.

I hope the show's not about to try and spin this like Colleen was manipulating Danny this whole time by telling him to get out and leave her alone over and over. This was pure luck that Danny just happened to have so little respect for women that he'd constantly harass her.

"That's your story?! That she's the bad Hand and you're the good Hand?!" The idea that Gao's a rogue faction does neatly tie up the awkwardness of her appearance in DD1. While at the same time not giving any credibility to the idea of a Good Hand, because we already know Nobu's side of things. If Colleen's not with Gao, she's with Nobu, and that's no better.

"Did Bakuto give you that money the day we met at the park? Was it okay with him when I stayed around at the dojo?" That said, Danny has no right to go off his rocker here because he harassed and manipulated her into a relationship, not the other way around.

"My feelings are for Danny Rand, not the Iron Fist!" Yeah, I actually have trouble buying that. Being under orders from Bakuto to recruit him would actually make more sense of Colleen's character than her spontaneously waking up one morning and deciding his aggressive sexual predation was charming.

"Consider for a moment that maybe, just maybe, they got it wrong." I mean, we know that Danny's right to reject her here, but it's not like he knows that. The only perspective he's ever gotten on The Hand were K'un Lun and Claire. He barely knows Claire and spent most of that time bickering her, and he obviously doesn't respect K'un Lun even a tiny bit and is quite resentful about his experiences there. He's got no reason not to give them a shot.

"My family are dead because of your family." By her admission, Gao's a rogue faction.

"I am listening. Everything you're saying is bullshit." True. But again, he has no reason to actually know that. Danny didn't watch the second season of DareDevil.

…so, what, Danny told Colleen that she's full of shit and is an evil traitor and should go f*ck herself and then…they just sorta went to bed? She's sleeping peacefully while he meditates on the bed with her like that whole argument never took place.

They could at least have had him meditating in a corner of the room, like, refusing to partake of this wicked Hand bed or something.

Wait, he can leave of his own volition still?! Then he shouldn't still be hanging out in Colleen's room at all! The f*ck? "I hate you, your organization, this place, and everything it all stands for. This whole room is stained in blood. This bed? This is a BLOOD bed. ...you keep to your side of the blood bed and I'll keep to mine."

I would seriously love to see the scene that happened offscreen where Danny and Colleen finished arguing and decided to sleep on it together.

"This is disappointing." I know, Bakuto. I'm right there with you. All this enraged violence against The Hand's computer systems and most of it directed at f*cking monitors. Danny only attacked one tower, and it didn't even break open when he threw it. Danny expresses his outrage by minorly inconveniencing The Hand.

"Simply a test. And you failed." So Danny chucked a keyboard at him. Seriously, Danny? Seriously? Danny has, at this point, ceased to be a master of kung fu and became a disgruntled office worker.

There's the kung fu - oh hey, it's This Asshole! What's he doing here? We finally going to find out what his shtick is yet? Is he with The Chaste, maybe?

"Wow. You are the worst Iron Fist ever." "Davos?!" Danny recognizes him. So, K'un Lun, then.

"You might want to check the file I left on your desk." So this is how the blackmail angle is being played. It was a neat idea, Joy, but you don't have a penis, so Harold's going to do it instead. Figures.

"And Michael…." "Don't bring him into this." Seriously, Harold, I'm so glad you're back. Harold is the best character in this show, because he has a clear goal that's personal and relatable, is a flawed and interesting figure, and is also a terrifying villain all at once. He's the wild card playing all angles, invested in every side.

Man, what a shitty way for Lawrence to go. I knew he wasn't going to make it out of this season alive, given that he's Captain Strawman of the corporate plotline, but he's an awesome Strawman who's actually been right about everything they stuffed into his straw, so I wasn't looking forward to seeing how his story concludes. At least it's not, like, being led out of the company in handcuffs and humiliated by Danny's mighty penis or something.

"It's The Hand!" "What?! …then we'll kill as many as we can on our way out." And just like that, I'm liking Davos. That is the perfect response from a trained soldier who just found out he's standing in the center of a compound owned and operated by his sworn enemy.

The Hand really f*cked up this assault. A tight bottleneck favors the single attacker over the mob because it cuts off their ability to use superior numbers. They're forced to abide Mook Chivalry and attack one on one by virtue of the selected battleground. Should have waited for Danny and Davos to get out in the open.

While Danny and Davos are fighting various The Hand students, all I can think about is that I like how K'un Lun sent just one guy to bring Danny home. Like, this guy is their super-weapon against The Hand, capable of things beyond normal warriors of K'un Lun, and they're like, "Eh, Davos can handle it. He's Davos! You know Davos? Davos is a pretty cool dude." What did they think Davos would do if Danny didn't want to come home? Y'know, since he ran away for a reason?

Also, for a guy who eagerly suggested slaughtering as many The Hand warriors as they could, I'm not seeing a lot of lethal blows coming out of Davos. Like, he had a perfectly good sneak attack on Darrell and he was just like, "Eh, a broken knee's as good as killing someone, right?"

"Right the ship." Joy clearly knows about Lawrence's death being Harold's doing, which makes this speech especially chilling. She's shown signs of being a cutthroat businesswoman, but never really gotten much opportunity to shine about it. And she's not here, either, because she's still just acting within the purview of the men who control her life.

"I move that we reinstate the Meachums." But not Danny, right? There is literally no reason to bring Danny back into the fold.

"And Mr. Rand." Oh, f*ck you! There's NO REASON!

Jesus, Danny f*cked off to parts unknown and the Rand Corporation subplot just solved itself while he was gone. What a f*cking waste of screentime that was. Honestly, that could be said of the whole company angle, really. Rand Corporation exists to provide Ward and Joy with a reason to exist and something to do in order to fill space in each episode.

"Well, dad, I need to know. Did you have Wilkins killed?" "…Joy—" Nope! Stop right there. She just accused you of literal murder. Any response other than being horrified that she would even suggest such a thing is a "Yes."

One of the best ways to tell when someone's lying is to watch for statements that clearly exist to buy time to think of a response in a situation where an emotional kneejerk is warranted.

"I'm a man of my word: no. I did not have Lawrence killed." That said, I love this sentence, because it's perfectly crafted. It's completely true. Harold did not have Lawrence killed. Harold killed Lawrence himself. This kind of manipulation via honesty is exactly what makes Harold such a great character.

"You owe me an answer." Join the club, Davos. Danny owes lots of answers to lots of people, but he's an asshole so he only gives information when it's unwarranted and detrimental to people's opinion of him.

"The people of K'un Lun deserve to know why they were abandoned." "What about the people here?" You don't owe the people here any kind of responsibility. Don't even try to pretend like you came here because you wanted to protect New York from The Hand. You didn't even think they were real until you'd been here a while.

Danny just says things that he thinks makes whatever he wants to do sound heroic.

This episode was a step down from the previous but still better than most of the others from earlier this season. Both Bakuto and Davos are welcome additions to the cast. Colleen missed a golden opportunity for redeeming the dumpster fire her character's become. Joy's still a Sexy Lamp. Harold's still the best thing in the show. And the twist about Bakuto being a rival faction of The Hand is pretty solid.

I'm amused at how the last episode spent some of its screentime having Davos pointlessly kick puppies for a while in order to set up that K'un Lun's folk are bad people. Like we didn't already have enough reason to believe that from Danny's occasional reflections on his time there.

Danny's still a shitty protagonist, with his lack of character motive taking center stage. I'm highly displeased that we spent so much time on this "Danny is no longer with Rand" bit and then it just took care of itself with zero input from him. That's Rand in a nutshell, really. I can't even say it's just there to give Danny wealth and power because he almost never uses them. It's just there to be there, really. A complete waste of screentime every time it shows up.

Which is a shame because the Meachums are the show's best characters, but they're basically in their own show that only occasionally does crossovers with Danny's at this point. It's a shame their show is so much better than his.

But the big thing about Danny's lack of motivation that gets me is just how obstinate about everyone he is. Colleen says to give The Hand a chance and he refuses because reasons. Davos says come back to K'un Lun and he refuses because reasons. Danny's defined by what he doesn't want to be doing rather than anything he actually does. He still, even now, has no goal or agenda. Even when he opposed Gao, it was just because he wanted to know about his parents.

Danny's a Rebel Without a Cause. There are a bunch of factions in play and he's here to go around telling everybody to kiss his ass, without offering any kind of actual solutions or carrying out any goals.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#75216: Oct 3rd 2017 at 7:05:28 PM

Remind me to link you to Brad Jones's video of him bingewatching Iron Fist when you get finished watching the show.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#75217: Oct 3rd 2017 at 7:10:22 PM

Even after watching the season twice, I still don't understand the context of Davos assaulting the guy in the food truck. Was he a Hand operative disguised as a food truck vendor? Or was Davos just being This Asshole with no regard for injuring civilians so he could get a good vantage point?

edited 3rd Oct '17 7:13:18 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75218: Oct 3rd 2017 at 7:31:45 PM

Davos is the anti-Danny Rand. Seriously, he's the Steel Serpent. Instead of doing shitty things for no reason by accident, he does shitty things for no reason on purpose.

What sucks is that Gao has become this complex, interesting villain over the course of her every appearance and I'm worried the show's going to take her down with it by making it so that her only purpose is to have set up Davos, the way Alexandra was only there to job to Elektra.

edited 3rd Oct '17 7:48:39 PM by Unsung

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#75219: Oct 3rd 2017 at 7:37:20 PM

YO, Clancy Brown is in this! I recognized him because of his voice. That's super cool.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#75220: Oct 3rd 2017 at 7:43:33 PM

[up][up] Only if they decide her death in Defenders wasn't final, which could go either way, really.

Oh God! Natural light!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75221: Oct 3rd 2017 at 7:47:37 PM

[up]Never Found the Body, and specifically her head, so...

Plus based on where Iron Fist left off, I can't see that being the end of her. Matt survived, and honestly Elektra probably did too.

edited 3rd Oct '17 7:48:07 PM by Unsung

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#75222: Oct 3rd 2017 at 8:21:52 PM

So...I just finished episode 8, and I think this episode may have just jettisoned DD S2 off a cliff. I'll have more to say about all of this when I'm done, but I think the seams have just completely unraveled and I think it's just going to get worse.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#75223: Oct 3rd 2017 at 11:51:01 PM

At least the fights are still entertaining, even if the plot becomes a mess.

Anyway, regarding Madame Gao in Defenders...

I don't think her "death" in Defenders will stick. Never Found the Body, plus Matt and Elektra survived, but also, they make a very deliberate point of showing her slipping away during the final battle in a sort of "I'll survive to fight another day" way. If this was going to be her final appearance, they'd have made her stick around to the end and play a more active role. I'm hoping that she's an independent villain going forward, rather than still a Hand boss, though.

I think Murakami is dead, though. He was pretty much just a filler villain who existed to make it a nice round five, gets a dramatic fall to signify his defeat, and was in bad condition during the collapse, unlike the others.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75224: Oct 4th 2017 at 3:14:38 AM

Danny being a rebel without cause is kind of the point though he is more a rebel who has a cause he doesn't want to admit to himself.

There is a reason why Harold wants Danny back at Rand....just wait and see.

That Colleen is part of the Hand is one of the better twist the Netflix shows have done. I seriously didn't see that coming. And while Danny isn't ready to doubt Kun-Lun I don't think that this was the point...the point of the scene is that we always want to believe in the people who raised up. Colleen believes in the Hand (or at least Bakudo's fraction) because they took care of her. Danny believes in Kun-Lun because they took care of him. And the audience, well, we know that the Hand is a cult and a dangerous organisation, but we have actually little reason to believe that Kun-Lun is necessarily right about everything. Which is in my book a nice departure from the "wise old men from ancient Asian are always right about everything" narrative which is usually sold to us.

I also give the show credit for doing a way better job setting up Davos than they did with Luke's brother. And I admit, it didn't even occur to me that the guy who was searching for Danny might be Davos, even though it is kind of logical.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75225: Oct 4th 2017 at 6:33:15 AM

I wasn't expecting the twist with Colleen or for Davos to show up the way he did, mostly because neither one makes a lot of sense. Colleen couldn't have planned her meeting with Danny or known that he'd be so persistent, and on a more meta level, Davos and Bakuto coming to the forefront at the same time just means the latter leg of the season is unnecessarily crowded. Neither one of them gets the amount of development their characters need.

@Draghinazzo At this point in the season, it's basically the Frank Castle Show. I do think the next episode (...which is the Wilson Fisk Show) is actually pretty good.

edited 4th Oct '17 7:20:29 AM by Unsung


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