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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#75151: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:12:55 PM

Speaking of Danny, will you be able to post more Iron Fist recaps Tobias?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75152: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:20:43 PM

Yeah, I'm planning to finish up. It's just been a busy weekend.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#75153: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:21:26 PM

Homecoming manages to rise above the mess that the ASM series was by virtue of having a confident story, and as such you don't feel like half the story is missing or being shuffled away in favor of establishing a Shared Universe due to every studio exec having their own idea of what the film needs to have. Peter is at the forefront of pretty much every scene in Homecoming, and if not him then it is some character building with Toomes. It dovetails two plotlines into a clearly developed whole, Peter seeks favor with Tony and sees stopping the Vulture as his ticket. ASM deserves some credit for making Gwen more proactive in the plot than Mary Jane in the Raimi films, but it also crippled itself by trying to make Gwen a co-protagonist rather than a confidant and introducing characters that have no real payoff.

I do think Homecoming has a bit of a Broken Aesop in play, what seems to be intended is something of a "Be comfortable where you are, don't seek glory for its own sake." But what it ends up being is "If you have a problem make sure you can fix it yourself and not just prolong it." It's not a bad aesop, but it does go contrary to the intended message. I don't really get how Peter came to the conclusion that he needs to stay a "friendly neighborhood" Spider-Man based on what happens in the climax.

The climax also comes with a fridge horror element, due to Spider-Man's involvement he almost crashes a plane into New York, and only barely manages to divert it to an unoccupied section of Coney Island out of sheer luck. It makes it less heroic and more trying to fix your own mess, but that's an issue throughout the MCU anyway.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75154: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:31:07 PM

Speaking of Iron Fist, I have to say something about Scott Buck, which is along the line of what someone else said in the Inhumans discussion. I have to mention first that I never watched Dexter...I tried it out when it dropped on Netflix, but I didn't even made it through the pilot. I just can't root for a serial killer, no matter what, nor do I share the fascination with them, other people have. Which is why I like the first Psycho, but non of the sequels, why I am one of the few people who gets bored and grossed out by Silence of the Lamp and Hannibal and why I needed some time to figure out the "Gwyneth Paltrow's head" joke despite having seen Seven once (and then immediately forgetting the movie because, you might sense the pattern there, I was bored and grossed out by it, but also very depressed). Anyway, because of this I have no idea what Scott Buck did to Dexter. But I have come to the conclusion, what his role in the MCU is.

Basically, Scott Buck gets hired for properties which are mostly made for business purposes and are supposed to be as cheap as possible. Iron Fist exists to make the Defenders complete...the show was planed pretty much since the first season of Daredevil, ideas for it where thrown around even earlier. And yet Marvel TV didn't hire a show runner until the last moment and I suspect the reason was that Loeb wasn't able to find anyone else who would be ready to tackle Iron Fist on what Netflix believes to be an appropriate budget for those shows. I give some of the writers and directors, the actors and whoever did the camera work for the show the credit for the result being something I at least consider enjoyable, despite its flaws. And then you have Inhumans, a property apparently nobody wanted to tackle except Perlmutter, and Perlmutter was mostly interested in it for an opportunity to show Fox the middle finger. To clarify something, I will always defend the inclusion of the Inhumans in Ao S. The MCU needs some way for people to get special powers without having to come up with an excuse all the time. But the Inhumans are not the X-men, I would actually argue that they are better than the X-men if handled right, because they can actually fit into the MCU, while the kind of stories the X-men like to tell would always feel out of place in an universe in which Captain America is the most respected hero of all of them. But the Inhumans TV show should exist because someone looked at the property and saw something exciting and new in it, not because Perlmutter is in a p... contest with everyone.

The whole thing is sad because I think that the Inhumans could have been great. And an opportunity to sell a bunch of toys if handled right.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#75155: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:34:14 PM

I've ranted and raged before about Buck only being hired to shit out cheaply made crap for Marvel, so you're dead on the money here. As for what he did with Dexter, I haven't watched show either, but correct me if I'm wrong: didn't he literally end the show by having the main character run off to another country to be a lumberjack or something? I've heard it listed as one of the single worst TV finales ever.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75156: Oct 1st 2017 at 12:38:17 AM

I have seen Dexter and, IIRC, its ending is the serial killer protagonist leaves his wife and child to escape the police by taking a small boat directly into a hurricane. He leaves a message for them telling them that he'll come back for them. It then cuts to him perfectly fine working as a lumberjack in Canada. The thing is, Dexter dying in the hurricane would've been a fine ending, since he was going into the exact same waters that he's been dumping the corpses of his victims in for the last 9 seasons.

The first few seasons of Dexter is still some fuckin' fantastic television. Dexter's appeal is similar to the Punisher's, in that he only kills other murderers at first. The difference is that Dexter kills his victims by strapping them to a table and stabbing them instead of shooting them, and the show is a lot more obvious that Dexter is a terrible person.

edited 1st Oct '17 12:39:20 AM by PushoverMediaCritic

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75157: Oct 1st 2017 at 12:46:15 AM

[up][up] I have no idea, I only know that the fans really hated whatever he did.

[up] I am not really into the Punisher either. I just can't get that invested in shows which have killers as protagonist. It pings something in my moral centre which makes me feel disgusted.

edited 1st Oct '17 12:48:02 AM by Swanpride

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#75158: Oct 1st 2017 at 12:59:04 AM

From glancing at the YMMV page for Dexter, one complaint of Buck running Dexter was him making Dexter go from intentionally morally ambiguous and not always in the right to flat out being shown as right and honorable. Sounds similar to the criticisms of Iron Fist and the Royal Family being designated heroes.

edited 1st Oct '17 12:59:25 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75160: Oct 1st 2017 at 11:36:05 AM

Unlikely since he send away the aether specifically because he felt it unwise to have two infinity stones at the same place. He wouldn't have kept the tesseract if he already had one.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#75161: Oct 1st 2017 at 11:38:14 AM

But Odin wasn't the one to do that, was he? Wasn't it Loki who gave that order?

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#75162: Oct 1st 2017 at 11:38:34 AM

The one who sent the Aether away was Loki.

[up][nja]'ed

edited 1st Oct '17 11:38:44 AM by comicwriter

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#75163: Oct 1st 2017 at 11:50:45 AM

But that's too good for someone like Loki.he'd want both

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75164: Oct 1st 2017 at 12:46:19 PM

It's impossible to know Loki's motives at this point. It's not clear if Loki ever even knew about the Infinity Gem in his scepter, and he only was after the Tesseract for Thanos. Loki's never indicated that he even wants one Gem, let alone two.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#75165: Oct 1st 2017 at 1:11:32 PM

Possessing an Infinity Stone would put Loki on Thanos radar. He's well aware that's a fight he can't win.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75166: Oct 1st 2017 at 3:37:56 PM

Thematically, it wouldn't make much sense for Odin to have one either simply because we seem to be setting up a scenario going into Infinity War where they're all known, but scattered. Each of the following parties has one and only one Gem:

  • The Avengers
  • The Sorcerers of Kamar-Taj
  • Asgard
  • The Collector
  • The Nova Corps of Xandar

The sixth should be somewhere that isn't one of these five options. My money's on Thanos already having it, personally, but we'll see what comes.

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#75167: Oct 1st 2017 at 3:43:08 PM

Thanos already having one makes the most sense, story-wise. It gives him a leg up to start with, removes the need to have to explain the presence of another one (which, admittedly, Thor 3 might take up anyway), cuts down on the number of time dedicating to him setting up a hero to wreck over and over again in a single movie, and just in general lets us be introduced to one of the gems via being wielded by someone who really knows how to utilize them as kind of a entry into how bad this is going to get once he starts getting more.

If they really are compositing Hela and Death as the unfounded rumors of Thor 3 are predicting, her plot in that movie could end up being a Xanatos Gambit where she loses but acquires what she was really after: the last Infinity Gem, which of course then ends up in Thanos' hands.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#75168: Oct 1st 2017 at 4:01:29 PM

My money is on Hela having it and that being the reason why she is suddenly able to attack Asgard.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75169: Oct 1st 2017 at 4:55:08 PM

It grants power over life and death, she's the goddess of death, in the comic books Thanos was in love with death as both a fundamental cosmic force and as an anthropomorphic personification thereof, etc.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#75170: Oct 1st 2017 at 7:07:15 PM

I was thinking it's a good idea to have Thanos start out with the Soul Gem rather than give it a spotlight movie like the previous five, but I think they've already said Thanos has zero Infinity Stones at the moment.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#75171: Oct 1st 2017 at 7:08:54 PM

You know, there was grounds for me to point this out earlier, but it just dawned on me that even now at episode 4, Matt's "NO ONE WILL DIE" stance falls a little flat when you consider how a lot of the time he stops just short of killing people and often leaves them in situations that may leave them to die anyways. Like the guy he tossed into a dumpter who went into a coma because of it. It's not like I don't get why he doesn't like the idea of killing people, no decent person really does, but it's not that simple you know?

-

Was not expecting the Castle storyline to end so abruptly. Kind of feel like that was a mistake. I mean, the reveal of his backstory and Bernthal's performance was really damn strong and makes him very sympathetic, so it KINDA feels like a waste to get rid him of this early to focus on something else.

...oh, right, I remember someone telling me this season was actually pretty damn good up until episode 4, which I just finished.

Shit.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#75172: Oct 1st 2017 at 7:12:30 PM

It's all downhill from here.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75173: Oct 1st 2017 at 7:16:16 PM

Frank's story isn't actually over yet.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#75174: Oct 1st 2017 at 7:38:55 PM

Frank continues to be pretty good throughout, and I don't think Elektra is all that bad (or at least not any worse than she's supposed to be). But the Hand just gets worse and worse, and Matt becomes a lot more adamant about his No Kill Code than he ever was in the first season. You can't tell me he dropped a fire extinguisher on a guy and tossed the same guy off a building after stabbing him in the head and was absolutely certain that guy was going to live. Matt's position should be that you don't need to kill everyone, and that people like him and Elektra are already dangerously close to risking relative innocents if they indulge too much in their bloodlust. Plus, y'know, Ten Commandments, eternal damnation, devout Catholic, etc.

And looking back at Nobu in the first episode? He could have been so cool. Peter Shinkoda has presence, man. If you insist on playing the Inscrutable Oriental card and not letting him have any lines, you could at least let him be onscreen more often.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#75175: Oct 1st 2017 at 7:41:41 PM

Nobu still stands out as the only major Marvel Netflix villain without any kind of backstory. Even the rest of the Hand in Defenders get one!


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