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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74926: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:04:15 AM

It doesn't make any sense for a corporation to get involved in the neighbourhood drug trade. It's a huge step down. Researching the chemical makeup of the drug so that they can turn it into something they can legally prescribe and thus sell at a huge markup is going to be far more lucrative for them.

The pitch for Gao's new superheroin is just a mess of contradictions. Look at our slick spokewoman! Look at our boardroom on this weird secret floor! Okay, now look at this packet of goddamn heroin and an honest-to-god drug addict we thought you stuffed suits would enjoy having paraded around like it's the actual Hunger Games in here.

It's trying to do too many things at once, both as a drug and as a plot point, and it's another thing where it actually might have worked better if it just embraced its comic book ridiculousness more. This is the equivalent of Diamondback's magic bulletproof man-piercing bullets, only no one's having any fun with it. Luckily the show is going to pretty much forget all about it like it's done with all its previous plot points, so at least there's that.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#74927: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:21:49 AM

The drug addict belonged to the drug dealer who was seeing the product. The saleswomen were treating the drug dealers like they were important businessmen as part of the whole high-class marketing campaign, but they were actually just drug dealers. Gao isn't trying to market her new heroin to legitimate companies, she's trying to market it to criminals who will then sell it to rich and middle class people who need a fix.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74928: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:34:57 AM

Was that it? It's been a while. That...makes it even weirder. Do you really need all this pageantry to get drug dealers to sell your drugs? Gao's already the connection for heroin, apparently.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74929: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:35:00 AM

Honestly, I really don't see the issue. What are the main challenges when it comes to drug pushing (aside from the product being illegal, naturally): You need a supplier (in this case Gao) and you need customers who can afford your drug. On the street level the latter part is a huge problem...first you spend all that time to get your customer hocked, but once you have, you have someone constantly whining to you that he really need a fix and will pay soon, even though he has literally nothing left to give. On the corporate level you can milk your cow a little bit longer, but sooner or later your customer either breaks down and ends up in some sort of facility or he just dies. What can be better than a drug which will allow you to milk your customer to no end?

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74930: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:38:30 AM

Limiting your sales to drug addicts is limiting the amount of money you could make from this thing if you got it FDA-approved and prescribable. Look at Martin Shkreli, speaking of the Wu-Tang.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74931: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:49:47 AM

Who the hell would approve a drug which has no positive effects (other than the people taking it going on a trip), but is highly addictive and has terrible side effects if you try to detox?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74932: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:50:05 AM

It doesn't make any sense for a corporation to get involved in the neighbourhood drug trade. It's a huge step down. Researching the chemical makeup of the drug so that they can turn it into something they can legally prescribe and thus sell at a huge markup is going to be far more lucrative for them.

Agreed. I can totally see a wealthy businessman buying it, but then turning around and sending it to the lab for reverse-engineering. Undead demon ninjas are unlikely to be able to file patents, so the buyer can then beat them to it once he has the chemical formula. Just like that, Gao's out of business and the magic heroin's making millions of dollars for the businessman.

I don't think the writers know much about drugs. Which makes sense because they don't seem to know much about anything the show is based around. Iron Fist seems to have been written to be a mindless "Shut off your brain and just enjoy the fighting" series which, in addition to being a huge step down from the previous three, really calls into question why it took so long to get to the fighting.

[up] So nicotine, then?

At least people on the magic heroin seem to enjoy the experience.

edited 25th Sep '17 9:50:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74933: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:54:56 AM

[up][up]You know that morphine and heroin are already practically the same thing, right? And this? A highly effective painkiller with no chance of overdose and no need to worry about building up a tolerance? There are a lot of people in a lot of pain who might benefit from something like that. The trick is not getting them addicted, but that's why morphine is already a controlled substance— and why heroin is totally illegal. But researching the stuff, the potential of it, that's where the real money is, not selling to drug dealers.

I don't think the writers know much about drugs. Which makes sense because they don't seem to know much about anything the show is based around. Iron Fist seems to have been written to be a mindless "Shut off your brain and just enjoy the fighting" series which, in addition to being a huge step down from the previous three, really calls into question why it took so long to get to the fighting.

I know! Right?

edited 25th Sep '17 9:58:25 AM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74934: Sep 25th 2017 at 9:58:29 AM

[up] Even if it works as a painkiller, one hit and you are addicted. No doctor will use it if there are just as effective painkillers which aren't as addictive. Plus, you missed the whole point of the drug. Gao wants the elite of New York under her control, she isn't into it just for the money. This is about trading favours, too.

[up][up] Honestly, I can't really discuss this in detail with you because than I would spoil stuff which happens down the line.

edited 25th Sep '17 10:00:04 AM by Swanpride

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74935: Sep 25th 2017 at 10:02:17 AM

Are you *sure* that was the plan? Discar seemed to think that boardroom was full of criminals. And heroin isn't exactly the party drug de jure of New York's elite, so unless Gao going to sneak into their houses and stick a needle in their arm while they're asleep (...I'd watch it), this plan doesn't seem the most feasible.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74936: Sep 25th 2017 at 10:24:22 AM

[up] Yes, pretty much, because the show says as much in episode...11 I think, but I might be one off.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74937: Sep 25th 2017 at 10:57:45 AM

...Seriously? That's...so much worse. And I didn't think the plan was great as is.

I suppose I'll wait for Tobias to recap it, but I don't remember the heroin playing all that much of a role in the season, and Gao hardly needs drugs to put the squeeze on powerful, influential people. At the time, I thought Gao was going to seize on a new heroin epidemic as a means of conscripting addicts into acting as foot soldiers for the Hand, or at least cannon fodder on The Defenders, but not so much.

edited 25th Sep '17 11:00:48 AM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74938: Sep 25th 2017 at 11:02:39 AM

[up] Well, the plan was a little bit more complicated than that. Just watch the hospital scene again when Not-Gao explain it, though I suspect that Gao's motivations were more complicated than that.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#74939: Sep 25th 2017 at 11:23:11 AM

Clearly Gao should've took some hints from Policenauts when it comes to the sale and distribution of superdrugs.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#74940: Sep 25th 2017 at 2:59:21 PM

While admitting that I have not watched Iron Fist as of yet, my impression (from second hand comments) was that the drug thing was some weird bit of Hollywood Law wherein the idea was that heroin made from All Natural ingredients would be legal because it was All Natural.

While it does seem possible that the FDA wouldn't have gotten around to regulating it yet, since it was apparently a completely new formulation, being All Natural does not make something inherently legal, since opioids and hemp byproducts are not legal and they come from plants. And of course tobacco products are regulated. Also, my impression is that the affect of the drug would matter more than the chemical composition, and since the affects were those of already prohibited drugs, it would presumably already be covered/banned under preexisting laws.

edited 25th Sep '17 3:00:39 PM by Hodor2

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#74941: Sep 25th 2017 at 3:35:29 PM

There would absolutely be a medical market for a heroin-like drug that you can't overdose on and only ever need predictable doses of. Every addict who starts taking a prescribed, government-funded dose of this stuff instead of heroin would be one who can work, be a functioning member of society, not die of an overdose, and not commit crimes to get his fix. Do you have any idea how much addicts cost the government in terms of law enforcement and social services?

As long as you set a high-but-reasonable price that the government considers measurably less expensive than the social costs of addiction, you'd make a mint. Legally, with no fear of being shut down.

At least, you would in countries where the concept of harm reduction has caught on. (There's a recent - and controversial - project here Canada where they're giving alcoholics (ones who have made numerous failed attempts at quitting and are habituated to large amounts) daily doses of alcohol so they can be socially functional and not go on binges or commit crimes to get money to buy booze. Weirds me out a tad, but it appears to be working.) Maybe not so much in the US.

edited 25th Sep '17 3:39:42 PM by Galadriel

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#74942: Sep 25th 2017 at 4:06:34 PM

Yeah, here in the US we have the War on Drugs, which has proven about as effective as trying to fight a fire with gasoline. Mandatory minimum sentences and all that.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#74943: Sep 25th 2017 at 4:17:51 PM

Our previous PM tried that (re: mandatory minimums) - and tried to shut down the safe injection sites - but the Supreme Court overruled him on the latter.

edited 25th Sep '17 4:18:21 PM by Galadriel

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74944: Sep 25th 2017 at 7:21:52 PM

Iron Fist, episode seven!

Oh, good, we're checking back in with Harold! I missed him. ^.^

"She finds it odd that you failed to mention the man whose identity you helped restore is also the legendary Iron Fist." I find it odd that nobody was apparently listening in on that conversation right here in the penthouse in which Harold asked Danny to help liberate him from The Hand. You guys knew instantly when Harold left the apartment. Do you or do you not have ninjas monitoring his every move?

"I swear on the lives of my children that I have nothing to do with Danny Rand." "Harold, we have a problem." [lol] The musical tone says I'm supposed to be panicking at this ominous moment but the timing is so perfect that I'm actually laughing. Goddammit, Danny, you ruin everything! [lol]

I love how the big guy totally just lets Harold stab his partner to death and tries to shoot Danny. Man, bad guys never play video games. Danny is a high-level target, Harold is a glorified NPC. Shoot him in the back of the head, then worry about Danny. You're not liable to hit Danny from this distance anyway; he has magic bullet-dodging kung fu skills. You belong to an organization that gets away with practicing ninjutsu in a country overflowing with guns. You know how this works.

Oh hey, Harold totally gets the kill on the big guy too. That wouldn't have happened to you if you'd shot him like I said, asshole. Then you and your partner could be double-teaming Danny right now. You'd still probably get your asses kicked, but you'd put up a better fight than you did just now. And you might still be alive, because I'm actually not sure if Danny's a killer.

"You killed them!" Oh, Danny answered that question with moral outrage literally right after I asked. That was convenient.

"What choice did I have? They were going to kill you, Danny." They were going to try. But no, I'm totally on Harold's side here. This was life or death.

"Don't play her game." I'm also on Harold's side here. Danny's an idiot so he probably doesn't know this, but when murder-ninjas ask you to sit down and play chess, the last thing you should do is actually sit down and play chess. He should have learned that lesson when he accepted Gao's challenge. The Hand are pragmatic, not honorable. Their first priority is winning. To people like them, rules are tools to be used and abandoned as befits the ultimate goal of success.

Gao wants him to be trying to puzzle together the details on Wendell Rand, and he's taking the bait. But given the kind of person she is, there's no reason to even assume she ever knew Wendell. For all Danny knows, she could have whipped out her iPhone and Googled the Rands to get that name while he was busy fending off his murderboner in the den of nine obvious bedsheets.

I mean, I'm sure it's not actually going to be so simple, but the point is that it could be. He's still letting Gao define the rules of engagement, even though she's been cheating since day one.

"What do we do with the bodies?" You f*cking leave them here where nobody except The Hand will find them and you leave. It's not like Harold can ever come back to the penthouse. The ninjas assigned to monitor him might be really shitty at their jobs, but Gao isn't going to miss the fact that she sent two ninjas to go talk to Harold and then they both died/went missing.

The only people who are going to find the corpses here are either The Hand, which means they'll take care of them, Harold's assistant, who will probably freak out but should get the message that this constitutes a pink slip, or Ward, which would be absolutely hilarious because I'm an awful human being.

"They'll know they're missing but as long as it looks like they did their job before they left…." You really want to bet your life on that? Face it, dude, you're all in on Danny at this point.

"You need help, Ward." "What I need is for you to stay out of my business. I have everything under control." Joy's right, Ward actually does need help. Ward's right, he's not actually allowed to let Joy in on this. But screaming at her and shutting her out entirely isn't helping anyone. Even when he's legitimately scared and floundering, Ward manages to do it in the most unnecessarily cruel way possible.

'Harold'' is required to keep Joy out of his life at all times. Ward just does it because he's an asshole. An asshole with a very serious problem and caught in an ugly situation, but still an asshole.

"Who's Frank Stein? … Fine. Enjoy your secrets." I half-expected Ward to bust out with, "He's my boyfriend," or something. C'mon, man, you can't be honest but you could at least make up something. A lie would at least give her something to put her mind at ease. Just standing there in stoic silence says to Joy, "Stay the f*ck out of my life because I do not love you or respect you as a person." That's not what you're trying to say but it's what she's hearing from your body language.

You're generically pure evil, but you care about Joy. Be better than this. Acting like a total asshole around women is Danny's thing.

"Madame Gao. She gave me a chance to win, but I couldn't let Sabina die." Nope. You're missing the point here, Rand. There was never a chance to win. Even if you'd been given the arbitrary title of victor over the ultimately meaningless challenge, The Hand would never have kept to their end of the deal and withdrawn from your company. The challenge wasn't rigged; it was a con. The only way to win was not to play.

Man, Danny would should never go to Vegas. He'll lose the company in a night.

"It's the mark of the Iron Fist." "Danny, I still do not understand what that even means." Yeah, last time you were asked, you just said it means you can't lose. Which is an answer that provides less information than not answering at all. It's anti-information. People become less knowledgeable after hearing those words.

Also, I'm sure people are expecting a bunch of comments about this quiet Colleen scene but honestly, most of my criticisms are about how we got here. At this point in the series, Colleen is barely even a character anymore. She's The Girlfriend Archetype now, and this scene has all the hallmarks of it. Danny doesn't really do anything wrong here, but it's still objectionable just on the grounds of the horrible path taken to get here.

I mean, my gut curdled when she said, "I want you to stay," but again, that's not because of anything Danny did this episode. This romance is awful, but this is a pretty generic "Hero has intimate moment with the Sexy Lamp before returning to the plot" moment.

"Ward! It's about time!" Jesus, Harold, you couldn't have asked him to bring a hacksaw? A hammer is a really shitty tool for chopping bodies apart.

"They'll find it difficult to identify them without their teeth." Oh, that's what he's doing. Okay, so Ward is just supposed to carry two fully intact corpses out the front lobby of a metropolitan skyscraper in one of the most populated cities in the world without being spotted, then drive them down and dump them? Seems like a plan.

"You called me in the middle of the night to dump bodies for you?!" "Well, who else was I gonna call, Ward?" Just a thought, you could have Danny do it. I mean, he was actually here in the penthouse with you. At some point, you sent him off to go f*ck Colleen, then called Ward to move the bodies instead. Harold's just trolling Ward at this point.

"You can do this. You can do this." You really can't. Here's a thought, why don't you call Danny to come help? You know he's involved in some crazy shit at this point.

Also, I like how not only was Harold able to spend an hour or two hammering away at the corpses of two of The Hand's ninjas without anyone monitoring him actually noticing, but Ward was then able to come cart them away without a single ninja raising alarm. Madame Gao does not run a tight ship.

"You think I don't know that?" Are we sure Ward isn't schizophrenic? He's having both visual and audio hallucinations at this point. He took one of his pain meds while he was loading the bodies, but that shouldn't be causing him to hallucinate like this.

"This cloak of bravado that you have? I know why you wear it." Okay, I am going to criticize this, because they're one again putting the blame on her for not understanding Danny in the earlier episodes rather than on him for acting like a complete shitwad. That's the fundamental problem of this romance: the writer seemed to think it was her responsibility to interpret his douchiness in order to achieve her natural state of being his Sexy Lamp, rather than his responsibility to not be a douche and instead treat her with respect.

That she would be his girlfriend was written in stone from the moment he walked into her dojo, and the narrative burden was placed on her to accept and embrace that as her purpose in life, rather than on him to be a charming and likable person who she could reasonably start liking.

"Danny, we don't know what's causing it. The EPA cleared us." Joy's in the right here. If the EPA inspected their factory and turned up no evidence of carcinogens, that's the most that can be expected out of any company. Danny's all, "It can't be a coincidence," but it actually could. Something in the area is giving people cancer, but that doesn't automatically mean it's the factory. A lot of things cause cancer. The burden's now on the EPA to figure out what it is.

I'm sure Danny will be proven right about the factory because he's the hero and all, but in principle, Joy is completely correct. Danny's trying to take responsibility for something that has been proven not to be Rand's fault to the best of our ability.

"You're the one that wanted into this company, right?!" I love Joy so much for asking this. She's completely right. Danny's been just awful as majority shareholy shit, that's Madame Gao! I am instantly intrigued by her presence.

"How did you get here?" "I've been in Rand far longer than you have." You knew this, Danny.

"Eat at fancy restaurants with your friends like Claire Temple and Colleen Wing." I like how subtly she name-drops them to show how much she knows about Danny. If he'd thought about it for two seconds, he'd realize that of course she knows about them; The Hand recovered the chemist from those two while he was foolishly indulging Gao's challenge. But he's not a thinker, so this is able to hit him like a shocking new threat accompanied by a menacing musical cue.

Conveniently, the assistant isn't at her desk to notice Danny prying open the elevator doors. And I guess Joy just sorta f*cked off somewhere, since she was last seen in the boardroom immediately on the other side of that glass wall behind Danny.

"Hey, listen, I'm sorry I snapped at you last night." Don't be. Jesus, how many times are women in this series going to apologize for being upset by the men in their lives treating them like shit?

"They'll find me." "That's why you're going to give me your password. So I can find them first." Gao was just here. Literally just here. She walked out less than a minute ago. You didn't engage her because the last time you tried that, she floored you without even touching you. I don't know what you think the marketing lady's password is going to do to make that fight winnable when the fact that you were actively hiding from her a minute ago indicates you know damned well that at this moment, it's not.

This scene with Hakudo raises a lot of questions. He seems to know about the Iron Fist, and this indication that Colleen's, like, spying on him or something just doesn't feel like it gels with her constant efforts to make him go away in the previous episodes. But, of course, it's deliberately ambiguous so obviously I'm missing important details.

"Until we can be certain it isn't causing illness, we're shutting down the Staten Island plant." The company is as sure as can reasonably be ascertained at this time, Danny. They've already had a full EPA inspection. What more can you ask for? Do you think that there's, like, a vat labelled "Cancer Stuff" that you can go remove and then everything will be fixed?

"Danny's plan is—" "The idiotic dream of a child." Strawman is totally correct here.

"You already went to the press?" So Joy, how's that injunction coming along?

"Did you know about the offices on the thirteenth floor?" "Well, if I had known, I would have had Ward charge her rent." I love that answer. Harold really is the best character in this show.

^.^ Darrell's got his scholarship! It's good to see Colleen's students again. I was hoping the dojo wasn't going to just sorta fade out of focus now that she's hooked up with Danny.

"I came to warn you. The Hand knows who you are." It's almost like you beat up one of their people in a hospital hallway or something.

"You don't know me, but The Hand does and they fear me." This is a pretty good speech. I mean, Danny's full of shit, of course. Madame Gao isn't afraid of him at all. She wiped the floor with him a night or two ago. But the Triads don't know that.

"You've been ousted from Rand." Oh, hey! They got that injunction I wanted! Good job, board of directors.

"Have you ever been there?" "I would have fifteen years ago if my plane hadn't crashed." Ooo, intrigue! Now, Danny is justified in wondering about his dad.

"Did you really think it was that easy to steal millions of dollars from the company and not get caught?" Ward was embezzling from the company?! [lol] Oh, Ward. Wherever there's a crime, he will be there. Committing it.

"That was MY MONEY!" No, I'm pretty sure it was actually the company's.

"Technically, it was the employee pension fund's money." Yeah! What he sa—Jesus, Ward, you were stealing from the pension fund? All the places you could take from, and you decided to drain the coffers used for imbursing retirees after a lifetime of service, so they can have something to live on in their waning years? God, you are so pointlessly evil it's actually endearing.

"You're my creation. You belong to me. Don't ever forget it." What I find interesting about this scenario is that they're both in the wrong in their relationship. Harold is a violently abusive parent, while Ward is a clear victim. But being a victim doesn't actually make Ward any better of a person; he lashes out at people around him, desperate for some semblance of control. It's a nice exploration of the cycle of violence.

And there he goes, finally lashing out hard enough to kill. Which is a shame, really, because Harold's an awesome character and it's a shame to see him go. At the same time, however, there's not really any more appropriate way for him to have gone. This is a satisfying conclusion to Harold. It's even satisfying in its abruptness; there was so much for the character to do in this growing conflict with The Hand, but death doesn't wait for you to get your affairs in order.

One of the most tragic aspects of death is that you are expected to drop what you're doing to attend to it. No matter how important what you're doing is.

Also, I like that Ward's putting to use the skills he had to foster at the beginning of the episode to dispose of Harold's body. If The Hand found it in the penthouse, they'd be liable to just resurrect him. They do that. Ward knows that. This at least increases the chance of death actually sticking this time around.

This was a really good episode. It had its objectionable moments, but I was really glad to see Danny's office shenanigans finally have some serious consequences. Harold was amazing as usual and I'm not sure how well the show will be able to get along without him, but it was a good conclusion for his character. Danny still sucks and the romance is still awful, but Danny got to focus on opposing Gao, which is the one arena where he doesn't constantly drag the show down, so that was refreshing.

All in all, this episode had a lot to like about it, and I look forward to seeing where things with Joy and Ward are going.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#74945: Sep 25th 2017 at 7:33:06 PM

His name is Bakuto.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#74946: Sep 25th 2017 at 7:51:49 PM

Also, I like that Ward's putting to use the skills he had to foster at the beginning of the episode to dispose of Harold's body. If The Hand found it in the penthouse, they'd be liable to just resurrect him. They do that. Ward knows that. This at least increases the chance of death actually sticking this time around.

I'm pretty sure Ward still thinks all the resurrection talk is bullshit, along with everything about the Hand. He was rolling his eyes back in episode 4 when Harold was explaining it to Danny, and he's been dismissive of everything Danny has been doing. My guess is he thinks that the Hand is just some random gang that is good at scaring people, and they hooked his dad up with some high-tech medication that cured his cancer and made him look so healthy that he doesn't appear to have aged.

So he's getting rid of the body not to prevent them from resurrecting Harold, but so that they'll assume he just ran away and not get mad at Ward.

edited 25th Sep '17 7:52:49 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74947: Sep 25th 2017 at 7:57:18 PM

Harold is a very underrated character in my opinion. He was the highlight of the show for me, as was the Meachum Family Drama in general.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74948: Sep 25th 2017 at 8:12:02 PM

I don't think Harold was underrated. I mean, I think he was great, but most people thought that the Meachums were the best part of the show. Of course, given that the show is called "Iron Fist"...

Though again, the hero being more boring than the villain wouldn't be as much of a problem if this weren't in the same stable as the other Netflix MCU shows.

That's the fundamental problem of this romance: the writer seemed to think it was her responsibility to interpret his douchiness in order to achieve her natural state of being his Sexy Lamp, rather than his responsibility to not be a douche and instead treat her with respect.

Exactly. And I'd say it extends to all his other relationships on the show. It's never Danny's responsibility to grow and change, it's everyone else who needs to figure him out so they can give him the respect and understanding he naturally deserves.

Interesting thing I'm noticing as Drake goes through this— Ward acts as pointlessly evil as he can because he doesn't understand Harold's motivations or methods at all. He can't see the ruthless game Harold is playing, just the end result, the suffering caused. So Ward is acting the way he thinks a villain should act, because he thinks that's all his father is and by extension what he has become. And he thinks it's easier on Joy for him to hurt her now rather than to let her in under the assumption that he's only going to hurt her more later. Of course, it's being shut out that hurts her most of all, but he doesn't see that because he doesn't share the same value of himself. Ward ends up being a very complex character, which was a pleasant surprise. I was pretty much in the same boat as Tobias early on, wondering why this cartoon weasel was a character in the same cinematic universe as Wilson Fisk, Cornell Stokes, and Will Simpson (Kilgrave meanwhile was a fairly flat character done right). I'll give the show props for turning me around on both Harold and Ward.

edited 25th Sep '17 9:18:13 PM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#74949: Sep 25th 2017 at 8:12:51 PM

Something I also find interesting about his death is that it happens before Danny has a chance to ever encounter his dark side. By killing him in this fashion, Ward's encased his memory as a martyred Big Good in Danny's mind. We know he's an abusive manipulator, but Danny doesn't. With Harold dead, Danny will never have the chance to find out.

I hope the show builds on that.

edited 25th Sep '17 8:14:20 PM by TobiasDrake

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#74950: Sep 25th 2017 at 8:57:40 PM

Also, I like that Ward's putting to use the skills he had to foster at the beginning of the episode to dispose of Harold's body

And this is what I get for skimming. it took me a few seconds to realize this was the MCU thread and you meant Iron Fist Ward, not Sunburn Ward.

edited 25th Sep '17 9:02:54 PM by Soble

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