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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74577: Sep 14th 2017 at 10:31:58 AM

Stan Lee also said a few years ago that marvel was making a Silver Surfer movie. I don't think he has much inside info about what actually goes on at Marvel Studios.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#74578: Sep 14th 2017 at 10:33:25 AM

Which is at least a trend.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74579: Sep 14th 2017 at 10:40:28 AM

The Chaste are basically K'un-Lun's army, who take the fight to the Hand outside of K'un-Lun instead of staying inside to defend it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#74580: Sep 14th 2017 at 10:52:42 AM

As much as I want to believe that great news, it's worth noting that Stan says a lot of things.

Wasn't there a bit last year where he indirectly made it seems like Marvel Studios was planning to do something that the fans really wanted, when they weren't?

In any case, there's no flipping way Marvel's getting back the X-Men rights, until maybe the point where these film companies are willing to invest in crossover movie events (at which point I want a JLA/Avengers movie). Fantastic Four is more likely, though.

edited 14th Sep '17 10:55:31 AM by KnownUnknown

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74581: Sep 14th 2017 at 10:56:08 AM

He does it all the time. He's not actively involved with the moors outside of the cameos but says things that make it seem like he's in the loop.

Even the statement isn't really newsworthy. "Someday they'll get the rights back eventually" isn't much of a development.

edited 14th Sep '17 10:56:45 AM by comicwriter

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#74582: Sep 14th 2017 at 10:59:22 AM

Yeah, all he said was: "Marvel is trying to get their characters back" which I can completely believe, but it also doesn't really count as news.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#74583: Sep 14th 2017 at 11:03:42 AM

He was bang on money when he said Marvel were planning on making a Black Panther and Captain Marvel film. It was ages in advance too, I feel like it was shortly after we knee the entire phase two line up and there was a backlash against how white male it was.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74584: Sep 14th 2017 at 11:21:33 AM

Yeah but those are both movies that were rumored for years. In fact marvel themselves had mentioned Black Panther and Ms. Marvel as movies they were interested in making and had scripts for years before they were actually in development.

Edit: Yup. Here's an article from May 2013 mentioning scripts for Black Panther and Ms. Marvel, in addition to Doctor Strange and a few that ended up as tv shows like Runaways and Iron Fist.

edited 14th Sep '17 11:25:34 AM by comicwriter

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#74585: Sep 14th 2017 at 11:45:15 AM

Ah that's true. I remember back then it was more common to hear what kind of script treatments MARVEL was looking at.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74586: Sep 15th 2017 at 9:37:20 AM

One of Surtur's monsters.

edited 15th Sep '17 9:37:26 AM by comicwriter

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#74587: Sep 15th 2017 at 12:03:33 PM

Honestly The Hand have never worked for me in the MCU. They were boring and cliché in DD S2, they were boring and non-threatening in IF, and then they were boring and their ultimate endgame turned out to be incredibly lame/disappointing in The Defenders.

Basically it's a "three strikes and you're out" thing for me. If we never see them again in these shows, that'd be just fine with me.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#74589: Sep 15th 2017 at 12:20:34 PM

[up] Could he play a good Asian character for once? Maybe he could play an original hero or just someone important.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74592: Sep 15th 2017 at 12:49:10 PM

Ooh, nice.

Turk is fun to have around. Though I can't imagine Punisher not just putting a bullet in his head as soon as he learns about his rap sheet.

edited 15th Sep '17 12:49:45 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#74593: Sep 15th 2017 at 1:04:40 PM

Turk is smart enough to not bring up his worst crimes around the Punisher, and Turk is too small-fry for Frank to look into him specifically. Except for that first episode of Daredevil where he helped the Russians with their human trafficking, he's just a petty thief, fence, and criminal informant. All things that Frank would find useful.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#74594: Sep 15th 2017 at 1:54:53 PM

Yeah Frank doesn't kill every single criminal he encounters (well not when he's written well anyway). He kills the worst of the worst. Heck he was able to form a semi-cordial dynamic with The Rhino when the latter was going through his "I'm trying to go legit now" phase, despite all of the stuff that Rhino had done previously.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#74595: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:11:18 PM

I would find it oddly satisfying if Turk just got straight up killed by the Punisher's conflict in this.

edited 15th Sep '17 4:11:54 PM by Whowho

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#74596: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:43:45 PM

[up] I don't see why we can't have our cake and eat it too in this case.

He's shot by the Punisher near the end of the Punisher show, then just turns up alive in either Jessica Jones or Luke Cage Season 2 with only a vague handwave as to how he's still alive.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74597: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:48:35 PM

The photo in the article makes it look like Punisher does get the drop on him, so unless Turk's entire role is just a 20 second cameo that ends in his death, the people speculating he could be an informant might be on the money.

edited 15th Sep '17 4:48:46 PM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74598: Sep 15th 2017 at 7:50:16 PM

Iron Fist, episode 3!

Hey, look, thugs are breaking into Colleen's dojo. What a perfect opportunity for her to show off her katana skills against hapless mooks!

She passes right through the beam of the main thug's flashlight on her run up and he doesn't even seem to notice until she nails him.

Oh, hey, it's Discount Sam L. Jackson from Rand Corporation. Is he the only one of them who has a gun? Because the other dude just sorta punched her in the back of the head after she expertly dropped all three of them, like he expected her not to kick his ass afterwards.

"We're trying to help!" Oh, this should be good. By all means. In what way were you helping Colleen by breaking and entering in her dojo?

"The guy who says he's Danny Rand? He escaped from—" Okay, she stops you right there, but let me stop you right there too. You didn't just get this news five seconds ago. You had to spend time coming down here, which means if you weren't full of shit right now, then you would have called ahead and warned Colleen that Danny escaped. You would have offered her protection. She was dead asleep in the middle of the night with no idea you were coming, which means she's entirely correct to beat the shit out of you.

Also, she runs a tiny dojo with a handful of students and doorlocks aren't cheap. Ward owes her a new door.

"Are the cops coming by?" "I haven't broken any laws." Uh, no. Even if we set aside all the stalking, assaults, and trespassing you did prior to being committed, you escaped from lawful incarceration via excessive property destruction and then came straight here and trespassed some more. Danny, you have done nothing but break laws. You are a law-breaking machine, churning out misdemeanors and the occasional felony with every breath.

"The third tenet of the Bushido Code is mercy, but even that has its limits." Yes. One of those limits is not being a thing. The Bushido Code is based on a heavily-romanticized ideal of the samurai way. It originates in a famous book written by Inazo Nitobe called "Bushido: The Soul of Japan" and has as much to do with actual real-world Samurai as King Arthur's court has with medieval Europe. But she's American, so her understanding of bushido probably consists entirely of that book.

Whoa. Did I just feel the chill of a thousand vengeful wraiths screaming in unison? Oh, no, it's just Ward.

"You caught me sleeping." In your coffin. So, Harold's a vampire. Did you guys know Harold's a vampire? Because he is clearly a vampire, which totally explains how Ward managed to be born a soulless beast that feeds on the joy of the living.

The hall that Harold's medical tube thing sits in is clearly the same hall that his assistant works in. They just replaced the stairs in the back with a wall, but everything else is identical. The kid's desk is even still there.

"You're my son and I'm going to make you a great man. Just cooperate." Oh, hey, Ward's the Harry Osborn of this series. Except without any of Harry's redeemable qualities.

And now Danny is directly violating Colleen's request to be gone by morning, because he is a creep and does not respect anybody's personal space. Seriously, his complete lack of regard for her is getting obnoxious. This behavior might be somewhat excusable when he's doing it to Joy and Ward, but he has no excuse with Colleen. He just flagrantly disrespects her over and over again because he is a garbage person.

Danny's future should be filled with restraining orders. From basically everyone he's ever interacted with. He might be the Good Guy, but he is not a good guy.

"Then why aren't you gone?" "I'm worried for your safety." You don't get to make that call, dickbag. You don't get to treat her like a helpless damsel who needs you to protect her and doesn't know what's good for her. This is not heroic. This is not chivalrous. This is Garbage Person behavior and it should end in Colleen calling the police to have him removed from the premises.

"Because the fat one who smelled like toe fungus landed a blow." And now he's being all judgmental about her successful defense of herself last night. Jesus, the Toxic Masculinity is just pouring out of every orifice on Danny's body right now.

Oh, f*ck, now they're fighting. This is going to be the stupid scene where he asserts his manly whiteness by defeating the Asian woman and she submits to his decisions, asserting not only that the White Man's kung fu is superior but also that he truly does know what's best for her and she shouldn't be trying to make her own decisions, isn't it? Swear to god, if this goes the way I think it's going, this will actually be worse than if they'd done this in the first episode.

And he's even monologuing about how shitty she is at kung fu while he does it. Jesus F*cking Christ.

Meanwhile, she's smiling like she's actually enjoying this. "Oh, wow, it makes me so happy when men flagrantly disrespect my boundaries and force me to submit to them with shows of brute prowess. Take me now, you smelly hunk of commandeering man meat!"

Oh, good. She abruptly realized how stupid this scene was and decided to kick him out. It's still quite possibly the worst scene in all of the Netflix shows, at least so far, but at least Colleen suddenly cut it off at the Tsundere and told him to go.

"What if I pay your rent?" With what? You are a hobo.

"You're an escaped mental patient who can't even afford a haircut." Yeah! What she said!

"Look, I'm Danny Rand. Like you see on the building." Unless you can legally prove it with some of that evidence you already told Ward you don't have, that doesn't mean anything. Danny Rand's legally dead. You're just an illegal immigrant who snuck into the country.

"Look, I'll have all this solved by Friday, door included." Like hell you will! Unless this show is asserting that the Power of Danny's White Boner is stronger than bureaucratic red tape, you'd be lucky to have this solved by next year.

And now she's actually letting him stay based on the unicorn wishes and faerie dreams he just promised. Which are probably actually going to pan out because Danny's the main character and the power of his White Boner probably is stronger than bureaucratic red tape. Man, it's only been twelve minutes and I already want this episode to rot in Hell.

"In another life, this would have been romantic." "In another life, you wouldn't have drugged me and sent me to a mental hospital." Yeah, I love how he doesn't seem to even consider the fact that she was clearly on Ward's side and Ward tried to have him murdered. She had nothing to do with that, but he doesn't have any reason to think so. He just naturally assumes her innocence because we already know that the power of his boner doesn't care about consentHey! , so why should a little healthy paranoia have any chance at beating it?

"It's a Buddhist tradition. It's meant to remind you of our bond." When your stalker says something like this, that's when you go for the pepper spray.

"Every time I try to tell the story, people freak out." You've tried to tell it one time while in a mental hospital. Danny's just stalling to keep the audience in suspense. He's somehow too stupid to know not to say this in front of a psychiatrist and yet shrewd enough to know better in the company of ordinary people who might be more inclined to believe him.

"You and Ward, you're the only link to the life that I had." Which is fine and all, but what did poor Colleen do to deserve your sledgehammer of a presence?

"It even smelled like him. Calvin Klein, right?" I can buy Danny remembering a smell from that long ago, but why would he remember the name of the brand of cologne Harold used? Why does he even know that? I mean he gets it wrong, so kudos, but what would make him even think that was correct? He's been in Kun L'un for fifteen years! Do they have Calvin Klein cologne in Kun L'un?

Joy invites Danny into her home and he immediately begins touching her property. Hey, Danny, that sculpture is for looking at. Don't pick it up and rub your hands all over it. That's creepy.

"This is our offer for your shares." No, show. Danny doesn't own any shares. He doesn't even legally exist anymore. It would actually be a crime for him to try and sign a contract with a dead man's signature.

"I have to change my name?" "The world already thinks Danny Rand is dead." …then how do you expect him to sign over his nonexistent shares? He can't change his name without first establishing that he's alive to the government, at which point it won't matter what his name is because he'll still be the heir to Rand Corporation. Jesus Christ, even within the internal logic of, "He totally has shares," how does Joy think this is actually going to work?!

Joy thinks a dead man can sign over ownership of a company fifteen years after his death and nobody will ask any questions. I do not understand why a show was written around the ownership of a major corporation without anyone involved putting the slightest effort into understanding business or law. I just...I can't even. This episode is so stupid. This might just be the dumbest episode in the Netflix canon.

"The generosity of this offer speaks for itself." It really does, Danny. She's offering you $100 million in exchange for your 0% ownership of Rand Corporation, because neither she nor Ward actually knows how to business. Sign that offer and you get lots of money for literally nothing! Take them for all they're worth! They're dumbasses anyway!

"It's not about the money. I thought you understood." Why would you think that? She drugged you last episode.

"You dishonor yourself when you fight for money. There's more at stake here than just your bills." Hollywood loves this claim. We're to believe Colleen's student is in the wrong for putting food on the table for his family so they don't starve and die. This is a common message in television, because Hollywood writers don't understand poverty. I shouldn't be surprised to see it in a show about a rich kid fighting for his inheritence, but here we are.

Oh, no, he might not get into the best college! He should just not help feed his family! Then they can all die and college won't be a problem anymore! That's a f*cking solution. Let's do that.

Hey, look, the Rands have gravemarkers. This should put a nail into the coffin of any question of whether Danny is legally dead or just missing. He can't have a grave if he's not dead in the eyes of the law. The cemetary files the death certificate upon internment.

"Step away from me! I said step away!" Oh my god, Hogarth threatening to pepper spray Danny is the best thing in this series. It's about time someone did this and I'm so happy she could be here to.

"It's Danny Rand. You remember me, right?" Why would she?

"You were an intern in my dad's office." Better question, why would you? Did Danny just boredly memorize the names and faces of all the Rand employees when he was a child?

"I went to your funeral." Another thing you can't have without being legally dead.

"We need to dig up every shred of physical evidence we can find to prove your identity." Good on you, Hogarth. That's what I've been saying. I'm so glad you're here to breath some sanity into these proceedings.

"You are worth billions, Danny. Not millions." No, he's not. Ugh, this show is really going to assert that he can somehow claim his dad's estate eight years after it ceased to exist, isn't it?

"What's it going to cost me?" "Nothing, but if we win, my firm is on permanent retainer for Rand." That's actually a good deal. Hogarth knows that Danny doesn't have a penny to his name right now so there's nothing to gain by charging him. He'll never be able to pay. There is, however, everything to gain by having a company like Rand as a contract. Jeri Hogarth plays the long game and that's why she's a good lawyer.

"We are disappointed." Oh, hey, it's Madame Gao. Shutting off the lights and speaking in spooky voice was a nice touch.

"Kneel." "What?" "On your knees." "But the glass…." So don't kneel on the glass. It was a small water glass you dropped on the floor. She's going to make you kneel on it now 'cause you said that, but if you'd just done what you were told and kneeled somewhere that wasn't the glass, she probably wouldn't have said anything about it.

…and then, for good measure, he puts his hands into the glass too. For no reason. She did not say to get on all fours, she said to kneel. This was self-inflicted. He made this more painful than it needed to be.

"ENOUGH! The dojo is a place of respect." Colleen said you don't talk to her students. There Danny goes again, rubbing his balls on the place just because he can. Absolutely no respect for her as a person.

And he sees her watching him so he knows that she knows he's doing what she told him not to do, and rather than try to explain himself, he stares at her and just keeps right on doing it. This is a power play. He is rubbing his balls on her to see if she'll make him stop, because Danny Rand does not respect her. He is a misogynistic asshole and he needs to leave.

"Is this a kindergarten or are you training warriors?" Get the hell out, you misogynistic pile of garbage. Danny Rand is the worst hero in the entire MCU, I swear.

"I know you're in a bind, having a tough time, but you can't be here." Thank you so much for that, Colleen. He really is a bad person and I hope this is the last time we see you because you do not deserve the shit he consistently pulls on everyone around him.

Joy brought the client to the hospital? I'm curious to see where she's going with this.

"His liver will never go to the national list. It will go directly to your nephew tonight." I like where she went with this. This is a really clever and kinda chilling scene that shows that Joy is a dangerous woman capable of leveraging the company's power to bend the law where needed and intelligent enough to use that to get what she wants. This is the most savvy Crime Person scene that any of the Meachums have gotten thus far, Harold included. I really like the display of power she's putting forward here.

Meanwhile, Ward just stares dumbfoundedly because he majored in Pointless Dog-Kicking rather than Cunning Crimelord Behavior at Evil U.

I like the scene of Danny being uncomfortable with a soft hotel bed and sleeping on the floor instead. That's exactly the kind of behavior I'd expect from a man in his position.

…in Danny's flashback, the monks are striking Danny across the back with their practice swords, presumably to toughen him. I get that. What I don't get is how he managed to drip blood from his back onto the top of his hand, positioned to the side and forward, from outside of the robe.

"You know I'd back you no matter what. I just want you to be happy." This would be a great opportunity for a Pet the Dog moment from Ward, showing genuine concern and love for his sister. He lets it slide right past with nothing more than a sniff of his nose, because he is cartoonishly evil.

"There is no proof of Danny Rand anywhere. Every single record. Birth certificate, doctor's visits, didn't you at least have a library card?" Well, that's just weird. Why would someone wipe out all of Danny's records? What could they possibly have to gain?

"Now, I think the Meachums are behind it…." Why? He's legally dead. What's his birth certificate supposed to do to threaten them? I'm not even sure what Hogarth is planning on doing with these records given that there's nothing about them that physically proves Danny's identity.

"You have a date?" "Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was in July of 2001? I broke my arm skateboarding." I did too, but f*ck if I know the date that happened. Danny's memory is goddamn magical.

"Sure, the X-Rays from that period are on that shelf to your right." Nope. That is a violation of HIPAA. Some random f*cking guy isn't allowed to just leaf through x-rays looking for one that fits him. X-rays are Bprotected health information and can only be legally disclosed to the patient himself or a legally appointed representative thereof. being legally dead, he would never be able to obtain an X-ray of Danny Rand. Patient confidentiality isn't just for shrink visits.

And he absolutely wouldn't be allowed to go to the archive room and leaf through countless other patients' private medical information himself. This is a federal crime being committed right now by both Danny and the person who let him do this.

(punch to the back of the head) Oh! Well, okay then. That guy doesn't work here and is instead trying to burn everything. So the destruction of Danny's records is recent. That makes more sense, and also explains why he was permitted to violate HIPAA so badly. This has to be Ward panickedly trying to render it impossible to prove Danny's identity by destroying all the documentation of it, even though most of that documentation is useless. Ward's kind of an idiot, but we knew this.

Oh, hey, is that the client from before? I honestly can't tell. Great job hitting Danny exactly once and then promptly ignoring him so he can come back for another go. That was brilliant.

Danny summoning the Iron Fist feels like overkill when his opponent is a pudgy business executive who got a lucky hit in while his back was turned. That thing obliterated a reinforced door and the wall it was attached to last episode, so it—

Oh. It just broke his hand. Okay. That was pointless.

And then pudgy business guy actually gave Danny a hard fight because Danny forgot how to kung fu. I guess he burned his kung fu allotment for this episode rubbing his balls on Colleen's dojo.

Jesus, pudgy guy actually won. He accomplished his goal and fled while Danny was left to grab the unconscious person and flee for his life.

I have no idea if Danny's x-ray was destroyed in that explosion and neither does pudgy guy. I don't even know why he was burning documents in the first place. Danny's records just disappearing indicates some kind of clever, subtle espionage to unperson him. This, however, is a high-profile act of arson that would call tons of attention down.

How did Danny find the restaurant Ward and Joy were eating at?

"I'm not your sister. He's not your brother. We don't want you here." Careful with that line, Joy; it usually just makes him clingier.

"You can't deny what's mine. What my father meant for me to have." Suddenly he does care about owning the company, but only out of spite. He wants the throne so the people he doesn't like can get f*cked. Truly a noble cause.

And then he shoves a poor, innocent waiter who's only doing his job. Great. We'll add random acts of violence against bystanders to the list of reasons why he's a garbage person.

"I have to face Hogarth tomorrow and I don't want to be caught offguard like I was just now." Already? That was fast. It takes months to get any kind of court date set. Unless they're doing this out of court right now.

"I really wish that I could find something in Danny to hate." How about the fact that he's a violent thug who is on a mission to violate every law by Christmas, regularly stalks people, breaks into their homes when they tell him to go away? How about the fact that he openly admitted that he's only trying to get control of the company so that he can punish you, personally? There is plenty about Danny to hate, trust me.

"He also said dad visited him in the mental hospital." No, he didn't. He said he thought he saw your father's ghost but that it was probably a drugged up hallucination. This episode can't even remember what happened in this episode.

"She calls herself the Daughter of the Dragon!" Nice comic reference, but Colleen didn't sign up with Leon. The announcer said she had to sign up with that guy up on the tanker before she could fight.

"Knockout or tap out and that's the end of the fight. Otherwise, whatever works." You just, five seconds ago, criticized Rusty for biting and told him not to do it anymore. You threatened to 86 him if he bites again. How can biting be a terminable offense if there are no rules other than "Knockout or tap out"?

'Wow. And then they had the mook kick Colleen's ass because of course he did. I mean, he "cheated" by biting in a fight with no rules of conduct, and that allowed him to put her in a position that she could only win the fight by heeding Danny's advice from the obnoxious earlier dojo episode. Thus proving Danny's value. What a lovely followup. And by lovely, I mean obnoxious. I'm glad Danny didn't have to physically'' show up out of nowhere and save her but I still don't appreciate that she only won because of him establishing his throbbing Whiteness earlier.

Okay, so the meeting with Hogarth is in the boardroom. I assume the rest of these people are the rest of the Board of Directors. It's nice to see they do exist; they just don't apparently have any actual power within Rand Corporation because f*ck you, that's why.

"We have decided to lower our offer to $20 million and added a restraining order." The $20 million is too generous at this point but I appreciate the restraining order. Honestly, at this point, Joy's within her rights to have Danny arrested.

"Take the offer and be thankful we don't sue you." It is at this point that I feel obligated to point out once again that Danny cannot sign any legally binding contract with a dead man's signature. He legally can't take the offer. He can't even legally hire Hogarth; she's here entirely on behalf of a verbal agreement. She can't even legally act on Danny's behalf because Danny Rand is still legally dead and therefore cannot take on a new representative.

"As for proof of identity." A touching gift that will prove his identity emotionally to Joy, who already believes him, but not legally binding.

"There is a child's fingerprint in the unfinished part of the clay next to Joy's name." Okay, that's actually pretty good, but I'm not sure it'd be good enough to pass muster against a corporate lawyer. Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that no other child could possibly have left a fingerprint there? Maybe someone helped Danny sculpt this. Can you prove there was no one else involved in the crafting?

It might sound like an asinine request, but questions like this are why corporations have highly-paid attorneys on retainer in the first place. The burden of proof is on Hogarth right now, because Danny's been dead for eight years. She has to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the man with her cannot possibly be anyone but Danny Rand.

"Did you steal it?" "That is immaterial. You know that it will hold up in court." That's not true, actually. Unlawfully obtained evidence cannot be submitted to court. The fact that it was even in Danny's possession immediately before being introduced at this meeting means it's tampered with. Can you prove this isn't a forgery? At the very least, the fingerprint could have been added by Danny after it entered his possession. This is not only inconclusive evidence, it's also illegal.

"It's my name. It means something." It didn't last episode. You just wanted to be pals with Joy and Ward. Ward actually accused you of trying to get control of the company in the first episode and you assured him that you didn't care about that. This is just spite, Danny. Don't pretend it's anything but.

Wow, Harold hasn't aged a day in the last fifteen years since that picture of him on the wall was taken.

I like this scene of Danny tailing Ward to Harold's place. It's a nice piece of action.

So, this episode was terrible. Just…just awful. I'm inclined to call this the worst episode in the Netflix canon. It's the only time any of these shows has actually made me want to turn the show off in disgust and just move on to the next one.

Its treatment of its characters was atrocious, it dropped Danny from a flawed but well-meaning character to an unlikable shit, and for a show that revolves so heavily around business and inheritence law, the writers could stand to actually know even just a smidgen about it.

I wish Danny had taken the buyout because then he could walk away from corporate environments. They are not to this show's benefit. I usually prefer the slower, character-driven types of stories but this honestly made me start yearning for the magic ninjas, because Danny is a better character when he gets to punch things than he is when he interacts with others.

Being opposed to bad people does not make you a good person. I feel like that really needs to be stated here, because Danny Rand is an awful human being. I cannot for the life of me understand the choices that went into writing this character. I'm hoping his awfulness is actually supposed to be the point and maybe he's on a journey to learn how not to be so awful, but that's not the impression I get. The way everyone seems to go out of their way to forgive his many, many sleights makes me feel like we're meant to sympathize with him.

And what happened to him sucks. It really does. But it doesn't excuse being so consistently terrible to every single person he meets.

This episode was really, really bad.

edited 15th Sep '17 7:50:49 PM by TobiasDrake

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#74599: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:08:41 PM

Oh hey, you got to the episode that made me wanna throw my laptop out of my window because of the sheer bile I have towards Danny Rand.

Oh, and you also got to the episode that had over fifty fucking cuts in a thirty-something second fight. Next episode you get to, Tobias, pay attention to how many goddamn cuts are in the fight scenes. This show's fight editing is the most atrocious pile of shit I've ever seen, and compared to the fights in Daredevil and Luke Cage, this just fucking spits on them with how little effort they put into making them look good. There's more fucking cuts in there than Liam Neeson hopping over a fence.

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74600: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:34:56 PM

Can I ask an honest question here? How come everybody is quick to call Danny an unlikeable douchebag and hate him for it, yet give Matt Murdock and Jessica Jones a free pass on far douchier behavior? I don't get what makes him any worse.

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