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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74501: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:03:41 PM

Or, worst case scenario, he slowly drags himself across the floor on his still-functioning arms to reach a phone or something. Assuming he doesn't have one on his person already.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#74502: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:14:05 PM

It doesn't matter. To put the guy in that position at all is enough.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74503: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:21:40 PM

Again, literally nobody said it's not bad. (Well maybe one post). Just that the scene itself really doesn't support the idea that he was left to die.

edited 12th Sep '17 12:22:18 PM by comicwriter

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#74504: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:22:25 PM

I'm just gonna say, you gotta be a real asshole to call the guy who uses magic to be able to walk "selfish."

My various fanfics.
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74505: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:29:11 PM

He explicitly chose to do only that. He had a choice between using his magic to help protect the world and walk, and he chose to only walk.

Basically, he got injured in an accident, like countless thousands, and went so far as to learn magic to help walk again-rather than try to find a fulfilling life while being paralyzed. He then said "so long Kamar-tards" and went back to New York.

He was given an incredible, secret gift, and in return, gave absolutely nothing back. He got his and peaced out.

If Steve fixed his hands and went back to being a doctor the world would have ended.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74506: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:36:19 PM

I mean, it's also kinda dickish to lure broken people in with the promise of using magic to heal them, then saying "byyyyy the way, now that I've taught you magic... you're gonna be a soldier in my war", as the Ancient One gets called out on at one point.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74507: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:42:07 PM

Except she only ever asked them to, as Pangborn clearly proves. and she didn't lure him in, he sought her out.

If i go around offering free fish and then anyone who eats my fish i force to join my fishing fleet, that's bad.

If a hungry man comes to me, and asks for a fish and i give it to him, and then i ask him, "hey, wanna join my fishing fleet?" and he says "back off creepy crust" and goes home, i haven't lured him.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#74508: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:42:19 PM

Pangborn isn't any more selfish than any person who undergoes an operation to fix a disability and then just goes on with their lives. And the Sanctum clearly didn't deem what he did so terrible as they let him go.

Oh and let's not forget that it was Pangborn who told Strange about the Ancient One in the first place. I'd say that's giving back plenty especially now that it resulted in the MCU having a new hero.

Pangborn wasn't using his powers to harm anyone and was kind enough to tell Strange how to fix his hands. He's done nothing wrong and did not deserve to be crippled again.

edited 12th Sep '17 12:44:55 PM by windleopard

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74509: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:45:37 PM

again false analogy. Pangborn was "given surgery" and then told "hey wanna be a doctor and help others."

And he said "no, i'm gonna go back to my garage and my basketball game. I owe you absolutely nothing."

He wasn't even going to hospitals offering helpless people hope. Steve had to actively seek him out and beg him.

Even if Pangborn is no more selfish than the average person, that's not a positive argument. "Everyone else does it!" is a child's position.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#74510: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:48:20 PM

[up] When you receive surgery, you are not obligated to become a doctor in response. Why should it be different here?

Oh God! Natural light!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74511: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:52:21 PM

Pangborn wasn't obligated. he had a choice.

He chose his old life rather than take on a new challenge and help people.

Joe Schmoe isn't "obligated" to mentor kids, or donate to charity, or read to the blind, or care or the elderly, or any of that.

The fact that its not an obligation but a personal choice is what makes it a good thing.

Feeding yourself is a necessity. Feeding others is a kindness. It doesn't make you a bad person not to feed others, but only feeding yourself doesn't make you a good person.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#74512: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:53:05 PM

[up][up][up] using your "free fish" analogy, Pangborn actually doesn't owe them anything because it was "free".

Again, Pangborn only using his powers to walk again is not a crime. No more than To y using the arc reactor to keep the shrapnel out of his heart or Steve taking the super soldier serum to make himself a better soldier. Their is nothing in that scene that doesn't make Mordo a villain or Pangborn not a victim.

[up] in that case Mordo should get off his high horse cause he sure as hell isnt helping anyone by removing magic from people who aren't using it to do harm. What Pangborn does with powers he earned is not Mordo's business.

edited 12th Sep '17 12:55:42 PM by windleopard

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74513: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:54:08 PM

He explicitly chose to do only that. He had a choice between using his magic to help protect the world and walk, and he chose to only walk.

Are you in the military or law enforcement right now?

Because you are literally saying, "Anyone who does not immediately register with their nearest peacekeeper-esque organization as soon as humanly possible is selfish."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#74514: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:55:01 PM

[up][up][up] Look, what exactly is your point here? I mean, I agree with you that, by definition, his choice was selfish, but that doesn't make him morally wrong to do so.

Are you saying that he deserved to have the ability to walk taken away from him? And if not...then why even bring it up?

edited 12th Sep '17 12:55:29 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74515: Sep 12th 2017 at 12:56:24 PM

Pangborn attacking first is the crux of it.

He was crippled in an accident, a twist of fate. And he was willing to kill to pervert that course of events.

Now i don't actually think Mordo's the good guy. I'm just saying its not as simple as "Mordo is a flat Ax Crazy villain."

Cause, did you ''see'' dude's arms? No way he's flat with a body like that, gotta have pecs like an...oh wait, people meant 'flat' in a different way.

[up][up] I think you might have a different definition of selfish than me. it almost sounds like you see selfish as a purely negative judgment call, and seem to think that the average person isn't selfish.

edited 12th Sep '17 12:57:29 PM by ArthurEld

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#74516: Sep 12th 2017 at 1:00:55 PM

If it was all a misunderstanding and Pangborn attacked out of fear while Mordo retaliated in self defense, then Mordo could've looked regretful while he explains what happened and give him his power back. Instead he's creepily smiling over this guy while he lies helpless on the floor.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74517: Sep 12th 2017 at 1:03:08 PM

well, Mordo's argument is that power used without a purpose, especially power that comes from perverting the natural order, is wrong.

and i'm not saying he's right, but its an argument that can be made.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74518: Sep 12th 2017 at 1:36:29 PM

well, Mordo's argument is that power used without a purpose, especially power that comes from perverting the natural order, is wrong.

and i'm not saying he's right, but its an argument that can be made.

It's really not. This gets into the murky "What makes power super?" territory, but here's the thing. Magic is a skill people can learn. There is nothing inherently special about Pangborn, Mordo, or Strange. They each underwent a series of training to learn how to use a skill that is naturally available to every single person on the planet Earth who is willing to learn it.

Magic as depicted in Dr. Strange is just something you can become able to do through years of study and practice. In the film, it's even directly compared with becoming a medical doctor, something else that anyone can do by putting in the effort to learn. There is nothing inherently unique or gifted about Pangborn. He's just a guy who knows how to do a cool thing.

Mordo is the equivalent of a kung fu black belt who travels the world hunting down everyone else who's ever studied kung fu and breaking their wrists so that they can't use kung fu anymore as punishment for not becoming cops after learning it. It is only justified to call Pangborn's use of magic selfish if you also agree that, say, a weightlifter who isn't using his muscles to do policework is selfish.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74519: Sep 12th 2017 at 1:45:13 PM

if you have a skill that can help people, you don't have an obligation to help them, no.

But then...why have that skill? (I don't actually expect you to answer that question, its rhetorical)

"Is there a doctor in the house?"

"Yes, but i'm under no obligation to help you. Now who wants to play basketball? I'll be skins."

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#74520: Sep 12th 2017 at 1:47:51 PM

[up] Most doctors, to my knowledge, to not study medicine solely in the hope that they can heal themselves.

I think your analogies are rather flawed.

And again, just where are you going with this? (And that isn't a rhetorical question, by the way)

edited 12th Sep '17 1:51:10 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74521: Sep 12th 2017 at 1:59:00 PM

But Pangborn did. So did Strange, at first.

And I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm raising an argument for fun. I'm being selfish.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#74522: Sep 12th 2017 at 2:03:03 PM

Okay so all of this was just deliberate trolling then, alright.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74523: Sep 12th 2017 at 2:03:51 PM

Not trolling, at all.

If I provoke some thought, great. If I didn't great too.

But I wasn't deliberately trying to bother anybody.

RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#74524: Sep 12th 2017 at 2:04:07 PM

Selfishness is good. If there is no selfishness, humanity will not seek out happiness.

Continue writing our story of peace.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#74525: Sep 12th 2017 at 2:04:42 PM

[up]x4 I'm not saying that they didn't do that, I'm just saying that doctors, in this case, aren't a fair comparison to make when they don't decide to practice medicine for the reasons Strange and Pangborn decided to learn magic.

But if you're not taking this seriously, then I don't think this is a discussing worth continuing.

edited 12th Sep '17 2:05:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!

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