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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#74276: Sep 4th 2017 at 7:17:31 AM

Ragnarok TV spot with some new footage.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#74277: Sep 4th 2017 at 10:55:58 AM

Tobias, I mostly agree with you about how the Judas bullets were handled and how it would have been better to have Luke attacked by the subtler methods Mariah suggested first, but something about it was bugging me, and I finally figured it out. But you haven't quite gotten to this part (it's in episode 10), so I'll tag it: The point of the bullets was for them to be mass-produced and given to the police, fitting with the themes of racism, escalation, and militarization. The point is that the police are so scared of a bulletproof black man that they are willing to go to a disturbing amount of time and trouble to make him not bulletproof.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#74278: Sep 4th 2017 at 11:59:05 AM

Really Mariah and Shades should have been the villains post-Cottonmouth. They actually fit with the themes/ideas of the show. Diamondback just drags the show down fast for me.

And Misty should really have suffered some more serious consequences for what she did.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#74279: Sep 4th 2017 at 1:17:46 PM

So I finished Defenders earlier this week, and I've been wondering something about our good friend Bakuto.

So the Five Fingers each came from a different homeland, and traveled to K'un-Lun (or were born there, in Gao's case), where they formed the Hand after being exiled. They've been around since at least the 1400's, if Alexandra's comments about Constantinople mean anything, and probably even earlier if they were involved in Pompeii like Stick says.

That means that Bakuto somehow got from pre-Cortez South America all the way to the Himalayas. As far as I know they didn't have ocean-traversing boats back then, so I wonder how that happened? Alexandra and Sowande lived pretty far away too but at least they had a continuous landmass to travel across.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#74280: Sep 4th 2017 at 2:51:48 PM

Ya know I'm surprised that in the midst of all of this discussion, nobody's brought up how Inhumans had its IMAX premier. Apparently it's (predictably) not doing too well.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#74281: Sep 4th 2017 at 3:09:22 PM

I lost track of when it was going to debut.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#74282: Sep 4th 2017 at 3:26:43 PM

I think all the bad previews made a lot of people stop caring.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#74283: Sep 4th 2017 at 3:30:45 PM

It's undoubtedly the worse Marvel's Cinematic Universe ever put out. I'd even say it's the first outright bad thing they made, with no room to argue average quality or bland mediocrity.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#74284: Sep 4th 2017 at 5:33:56 PM

I didn't even know it had an IMAX premiere until I went to the local theater yesterday and saw it was playing in one room.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74285: Sep 4th 2017 at 8:57:40 PM

Luke Cage, Episode 10!

Alright, so Diamondback got off to a terrible start but then regained a lot of Villain Cred in his next episode. Let's see if he can maintain that momentum.

Claire's method of electrocuting Luke back to life is actually pretty clever. Props.

"That was reckless." I mean, when the man is literally dying, there's not much harm in reckless. "Do nothing; let him die" is not a safer alternative to literally anything you could possibly try.

"You are about to do something completely stupid. I wouldn't be a good scientist if I let you do it alone." Science! [lol] Sad thing is, this is not inaccurate. A major aspect of science is challenging what we commonly assume to be right.

"Got you. We got it all." Um. Excuse you. There were two Judas Bullets in him. You extracted the material from one bullet wound. There's still a shoulder wound that needs to be taken care of.

"Why didn't you just come to me?" "Power doesn't travel." That's a great answer. Says everything that needs to be said about Diamondback's relationship with Mariah in three words.

Um, I have issues with Diamondback's idea of breaking down the Judas Bullet and putting a hundred in a machine gun. Like. He seems to be indicating that the only thing special about it is the alien material. No. That's stupid. The bullet drills inside its target and then detonates. That's a bit more complicated than just being made of a really strong metal.

Wow, what a shitty plan. Diamondback punching a cop across the street while being a black man in a hoodie? Clever. Racist cops won't be able to tell one black guy with super strength apart from another. They won't even bother. Except, doing it while shouting, "Luke Cage! I'm Luke Cage!" at the top of his lungs kills any possible effect this could reasonably have.

If a white guy was running around shooting cops and screaming, "HEY GUYS, I'M TOM CRUISE!!! I'M TOM CRUISE, YOU GUYS!!! DID YOU KNOW I'M TOM CRUISE?!" I'd be pretty confident that Tom Cruise had nothing to do with it.

I love when Diamondback quotes the Bible. That's a fun character quirk that plays very well into the black culture theme this series started out with. Black people are very religious. I'd say they're probably a more religious demographic than whites, even. Bad guys quoting the Bible are nothing new, mind, but I love the way Diamondback takes this facet of black culture and perverts it. Given Luke's propensity for quoting and discussing major figures in black history and philosophy, it's an effective way of setting up Diamondback's role as Luke's Evil Counterpart.

Now, I don't know that making him Luke's Evil Counterpart was a good idea. Diamondback's at his best when he's just being a dangerous crime lord. In point of fact, I'd call this "Luke's brother" angle a weakness to his depiction; he already has plenty of reason to target Luke after all the trouble he gave Cornell. He didn't need this personal edge. Cornell needed a personal edge because that's what got the ball rolling, and he had one via Pop. It was a very good one. Diamondback does better as the bigger dog rolling in to take Cornell's territory than as Luke's maniacal evil brother with a grudge.

But setting that aside, giving Diamondback a philosophical side to him in a different but still meaningful way from Luke is a great way of setting them up as counterpoints to each other without resorting to something lame like, "Luke, I am your Fath—Brother! Your brother."

"You quote the Bible like you actually believe in God." "And you speak to me as if you are not actually in the presence of death." God, this guy gets so many good lines when he's not talking to Luke. It's the delivery that really sells it. When he's not going Full Joker at Luke, Diamondback is cool, collected, and detached. He says shit like this not as a taunt or a jab, but with a straight matter-of-fact voice that assures the audience that not only does he mean it, but this is just business as usual for him.

"Get your Sharpton on." And just because his thing is Bible quotes doesn't mean Diamondback's a slouch in black leaders either. That's Al Sharpton he's referencing, by the way. Appropriately for a reference coming from Diamondback, Sharpton is a controversial figure in black culture, with choice quotes such as:

"White folks was in the caves while we was building empires. We built pyramids before Donald Trump even knew what architecture was. We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it. Do some cracker come and tell you, 'Well my mother and father blood go back to the Mayflower,' you better hold your pocket. That ain't nothing to be proud of, that means their forefathers was crooks."

These cops are idiots. Now that it's been established that Luke Cage has super strength, their A-plan for bringing him in is, "GET HIM!" Like. Make a plan, you guys. Operation "Tackle random black guys on the street and if he breaks your spine in half, you win!" needs work.

"Take your time. I'll be back!" Leave. Now. He's going to get goons. Or call goons. Or something involving goons. Do you want goons in your face? No. So get the f*ck out now.

"It might never be unlocked again. I gotta know." Okay, fair. This is a legitimate reason for staying and getting goons in your face. Besides, Luke can handle goons.

Ooo, Reva was in on the fight trials. I wish Luke had more time to watch these, because I'd love to see more of how she manipulated him. The question of whether or not she ever truly cared for him is in the air.

Oh, good. More police brutality. But it's not Misty this time and it's much worse. This precinct is lovely.

"What, you're still pining like a lovesick puppy over Reva?" Deck him and leave. He did not come back with goons, which means he called goons. They're on their way now with, like, nets and shit. I don't know. Whatever the home office can put together to deal with something they created. Punch him square in the face, break his nose, take the drive, smash his computer for good measure - he might have copied files - and then leave.

"And she lied again when she erased both of you from existence." Oh, good. That pretty much confirms she loved him. Drama resolved.

Ooo, he's actually doing it. Go Luke!

I like how Mariah's playing the crowd against NYPD. If she plays this right, she can actually absolve Cornell in the public consciousness by connecting his arrest to the racism and brutality she's revealing now. Which would, in turn, absolve her of any bad press for her relation to it. She could milk this for some serious political points.

"Willis hates me and I Just need to figure out why." No, what you need to do is go punch him in his smug face. This personal connection does not help the story. It actually detracts from the story, because it introduces the contrivance that Luke just happened to set up shop right where Willis does business.

Yep. Doc made copies. Luke should have been more thorough in his smashing.

"Luke? Luke, are you alright?" Probably not but what I'm more interested in is that framed Bible passage next to you. "Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes." Poignant.

"Willis Stryker is my brother." Wow. Took you all of five minutes standing in the church from your past to accept that. I'm sure Claire's real thrilled she burned so much gas money getting here when you were already 90% of the way to making peace with the truth.

"Diamondback is after everyone and everything that I ever cared about." …uh, no. No, that is not what's happening. He's trying to murder you, specifically. He came at you with Luke-slaying super-bullets. If he'd had his way, you'd be in a shallow grave right now. You are alive due purely to luck. Quit trying to make this like some grandiose supervillain revenge plot, like he's about to kidnap your girlfriend and then fly off into the night and huck her off a bridge. He is after you. Because you are in the way. This personal connection is really tacked on and weakens the plot every time it comes up.

Mariah's speech was very confusing. Somehow, she managed to get from cops beating up black kids to needing better guns for police. That was a hell of a maneuver. I feel like the Fridge Logic would settle in as soon as people left the building, though.

You know, Luke Cage or no Luke Cage, a bunch of armed dudes shooting up Mariah's conference isn't going to do her any favors towards the goal of convincing people she's not associated with this kind of violence.

So, this was a decent episode. Not as good as the previous one, but still pretty solid. Diamondback's definitely a stronger character when he's able to just be a dangerous crimelord. I don't much like the Claire/Luke subplot that's developing. It's not as bad as the Misty/Luke one was, but given that she's basically being the Coulson of the Netflix shows, it feels kinda sexist to have her boinking her way through the Defenders. Well, except Jessica, because No Homo, I guess.

I don't really want Claire to be romantically involved with any of these characters. I mean, Coulson had his obvious crush on Cap, sure, but he didn't have to sleep with Tony Stark to be valuable. Why can't a female character partner up with and help a male character without there needing to be sexual tension in the mix.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#74286: Sep 4th 2017 at 9:12:01 PM

I don't think she boinked Matt, either, though. Just showed human compassion that transformed into friendship and endearment.

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#74287: Sep 4th 2017 at 9:28:36 PM

Based on my recent reading of olde Power Man and Iron Fist comics, at one point Luke was in a relationship with Claire and carried a torch for her for a very long while. Doesn't mean they had to adapt the relationship but that's the inspiration anyway.

If it helps, Claire isn't going to boink Danny either.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74288: Sep 4th 2017 at 9:29:36 PM

[up] I did not know that.

Never mind, then.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#74289: Sep 4th 2017 at 9:43:19 PM

She didn't boink Danny either (thank God).

Seriously, the only Defender she's had a sexual relationship is Luke.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#74290: Sep 4th 2017 at 10:32:09 PM

(reiterating from an earlier post)

@Tobias: Regarding the Judas bullets and how bringing out the "Kryptonite" so early is a bad idea, I mostly agree with you. Starting with Mariah's subtler methods would have been more pragmatic and interesting, but there's the themes of the show to consider. The point of the bullets was for them to be mass-produced and given to the police, fitting with the themes of racism, escalation, and militarization. The police are so scared of a bulletproof black man that they are willing to go to a disturbing amount of time and trouble to make him not bulletproof.

Oh, and regarding the "Chitauri metal somehow magically pierces Luke's skin," remember in the opening of Homecoming, Tooms shows his guys that the only way to take the Chitauri stuff apart is using other Chitauri stuff. So... I guess that's consistent that the metal is both tough and sharp?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#74291: Sep 4th 2017 at 10:41:51 PM

No Luke is the character who "gets around" in these shows, not Claire. That woman at the beginning of JJ, Jessica herself, Reva, Misty, Claire, etc.

Danny better be careful or Luke might end up stealing Colleen from him.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#74292: Sep 4th 2017 at 10:43:03 PM

Do we even know if the mass-produced Judas machine gun bullets would even work on Luke? As far as I recall, he never gets hit by any.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74293: Sep 4th 2017 at 11:37:29 PM

I have paid attention to the reactions to Inhumans and the main issue seems to be that it just isn't worth it to pay that much money to see a TV show on the big screen you will be able to watch in a few weeks anyway.

With the reviews, it depends pretty much on who you ask. There are some people who say that if you judge it as what it is, a TV show, the production value is actually pretty impressive, and as start of a new series it is okay. I guess I'll watch the whole thing once it airs and then judge it.

[up] I doubt it, since they are supposed to be weaker.

edited 4th Sep '17 11:38:40 PM by Swanpride

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#74294: Sep 5th 2017 at 12:52:43 AM

A 0% must really hurt for Marvel TV fans at the moment...good thing the films are on decent track for now.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74295: Sep 5th 2017 at 1:42:44 AM

[up] We are used to it. Honestly, that Ao S still doesn't get the credit it deserves hurts way more than the question if The Inhumans are good or not.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#74296: Sep 5th 2017 at 3:15:53 AM

Who says Ao S doesn't get credit? It's been consistently praised since the second half of season 1.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74297: Sep 5th 2017 at 3:27:20 AM

[up] You must watch other comic book news shows than I do. Most of them are still throwing out digs against Ao S at every opportunity. Just recently at the MCU exchange podcast someone threw out that Ao S is "too predictable" for his taste during the Defenders review. (I mean...really???? There might be some things one can accuse Ao S of, but being predictable isn't one of them).

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#74298: Sep 5th 2017 at 3:29:54 AM

You'll find detractors of every show. It isn't just limited to Ao S. I've seen plenty of news sites and shows praise Ao S.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74299: Sep 5th 2017 at 6:57:09 AM

When people are actually talking about Agents, it generally receives high praise.

It's when people are just making sideways comments about the show that they don't seem aware the quality's changed. It's this weird sort of fan division where people who gave up on it in season 1 are like, "LOL, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., amirite guys?" and then people who stuck with it are like, "No. No, you're actually not, and here's my list of reasons why."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#74300: Sep 5th 2017 at 7:36:29 AM

Agents of Shite, amirite guys?

edited 5th Sep '17 7:36:45 AM by thatindiantroper


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