TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74127: Aug 29th 2017 at 7:03:30 AM

[up][up] It was blue and black in my case.

So...this actually might be a dress situation? Are there others who see this thing as gold-tinted?

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74128: Aug 29th 2017 at 7:40:30 AM

[up][up]Relevant. Here's to the guy who created about 90% of the named characters in this franchise. #Kirby100

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#74129: Aug 29th 2017 at 10:15:34 AM

Especially with Thor, who Stan had little interest in.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#74131: Aug 29th 2017 at 1:24:31 PM

>Re: Wasp

Can't wait till she's tiny and flying,then we call her Tinkerbell

Seriously the resemblance to a fairy is uncanny to say the least!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#74132: Aug 29th 2017 at 1:31:32 PM

Tinkerbell is already taken by Cap.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#74133: Aug 29th 2017 at 2:52:46 PM

Jan actually refers to herself as a modern American Tinkerbell in Avengers 137. So. Precedent.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#74135: Aug 30th 2017 at 6:25:35 PM

From what it sounds like they're not going to just turn Molly into an Inhuman. Thank goodness. Also it seems like they're going all out with Old Lace which pleases me greatly.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74136: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:30:24 PM

Luke Cage, Episode Seven!

Luke breaking up an arms deal by just sorta walking up and hanging out with them is hilarious. "Do I even need to say it?" [lol] In less than a minute, this episode already has my full attention.

"Ain't you heard? Cottonmouth's getting out. You ain't done shit. BOOM!" I mean, Cornell's still broke. That's still a thing. And, like, he's lost two police insiders over this. YMMV on how much that counts as a thing Luke did, mind, but it's still a hefty blow. Not to mention that him being arrested in the first place is going to look really bad for Mariah.

The media pays more attention to arrests than to trials. Especially for ethnic minorities. "COTTONMOUTH ARRESTED" is front-page news. "COTTONMOUTH ACQUITTED" will be two paragraphs somewhere on page 48, next to "LOST CAT FOUND".

Jesus, is Cornell not even going to trial? That's not even going to get the two paragraphs. This will not be reported on at all, so Mariah's still going to have some hefty PR fallout to deal with. She's going to be answering questions about how her brother "totally went to jail, right?" for the rest of her campaign.

"We'll see who's somebody's bitch when your ass is in prison." Prison rape joke. Not okay, show. Especially coming out of the mouth of a protagonist who we are supposed to like.

I don't like that Cornell gets to walk. At the same time, I get it. The notes aren't damning enough, and the DA wants to be absolutely sure he or she has a conclusive case on him before any action can be taken. That's the thing about law. Double jeopardy means if they take Cornell to court and a jury doesn't consider the notes sufficient evidence to prove Cornell's culpability beyond reasonable doubt, he can never be tried for these crimes again. Legally, once declared not guilty, he is not guilty forever. No matter what else you uncover.

He can still be tried for future crimes he commits, but that's still going to basically take the investigation back to square one while he's still operating with all the experience and resources his past crimes earned him.

"So when do I get my juice?" You don't. When was that ever the deal? Shades said, "You pay for it with money or you beg Diamondback to fix your problems." YOU were the one who said you were going to retake control by fixing the deal with Domingo. And you did that. However that helps you profit, good on you. But the deal is still "Money or territory, pick a method of payment." At no point were freebie Judas Bullets put on the table as a reward for fixing your own shit.

"You don't." Yeah! What he said!

"All he has to do is just SHOW UP! And hoods scatter like roaches." Yeah, that seems like a personal problem to me. You know who else makes hoods scatter by showing up? Cops. Being able to do business without attracting attention is, like, the most basic of basic crime skills. The f*ck do you think you're running here, an ice cream truck? Learn how to crime, dumbf*ck. PROTIP: You're supposed to do it secretly.

"N——-s talk about him like he can walk on water." "Can he?" I love the tone in Shades's voice when he asks that. It's not pointed. It's curious. He would legitimately like to know if that's a thing Luke can do. After watching him wade through gunfire, it's not unreasonable to believe.

Oh, good, now Cornell's agreeing to run to Diamondback for aid because learning how to crime properly is too hard. Man, having cops on the payroll was a handicap. Having officers who can cover up his crimes for him meant he got to do business sloppily. Cornell isn't clever. He just got lucky.

Still better than Fisk, though.

"You mean that cat running around beating people up? That's what you want me to be?" Dude. Luke. It's what you've been. From the moment you set foot in Cornell's Fort Knox, you were a vigilante. This kind of "I respect the sanctity of law except for all the ones I gleefully break!" drama is one of the things I hate about superhero comics.

"Let's parlay." Why? There is literally nothing that Luke wants which you can offer right now. Like, I know obvious trap is an obvious trap but why would Luke agree to walk into it? Does he plan to go stand in the middle of the nightclub and posture uselessly some more? Except on Cornell's terms this time?

I mean, shit, you're on the phone right now. If Cornell has something to say, he can say it over the phone. If he's not comfortable with that because it might be tapped or something, then he can go f*ck himself because unless Luke's finally planning to physically thrash him, there's no good reason to go down there.

"I'm a strong believer in party first, no matter what." You can go straight to Hell, because you are the reason our country is in such a state right now.

"Family first, Robin." Wow. That is the worst answer you can give to a question about your brother's crimes. Mariah basically just admitted on national television that she'll say anything to shield her brother. Maybe the stupid runs in the family.

"Mariah?" "How the hell did you get in here?" Is there supposed to be porno music playing in the background of this scene? Because this backdrop is just a bow-chicka-wow-wow away from Shades opening up his toolbox and fixing Mariah's plumbing.

"Your career is also in the balance." Wait, go back. The f*ck was that?

Shnazzy flashback to Misty and Luke f*cking but what does that have to do with anything? It's not like her reason for not arresting Luke is because they f*cked. That'd be a really shitty reason and make her a really shitty officer. It's because she doesn't think he's actually guilty of anything. Goddammit, Tyler Durden, that was completely unnecessary!

The flashback to Cornell's first execution is nicely played. I like how abruptly Mama Mabel turns violent. She's legitimately scary, and the finger-slicing serves as a stark reminder of how gruesome these shows can get. It's something that's easy to forget due to how invulnerable the main character in this one is.

"So what? You here to take me in or take me out?" He's here to parley. That's why you called. Even though it was completely stupid for him to agree.

"Hey. You called me." Yeah! What he said! …not sure that really needed the exclamation mark.

"I'm taking you in. You're going to sit down with Misty Knight and you're going to confess to everything." Congratulations, Luke. That's the dumbest plan you've concocted yet. Like, if it actually worked like that, you could have done this way back in episode 2. You're not intimidating, Luke. You're not intimidating because you refuse to so much as touch Cornell. You have no bite to back up your bark.

"Carl Lucas. That's a square-ass name, man. My mama named me that, I'd change my name to Luke Cage too." In fairness, Cornell isn't wrong. Luke Cage is a much cooler name. Shit, Luke Cage is so cool that actual real-world celebrity Nicholas Cage chose his stage name as a reference to it.

I hope Cage gets a cameo in Luke Cage one of these seasons.

"I own you now and if you refuse, then back to Seagate you go." See. Shit like this is what I'm talking about when I say that Cornell's passed the point that anything he tries to do to be threatening just reflects more on Luke's ineffectiveness than his own threat level. None of this would be happening if Luke popped his head off back in episode 3. F*ck, nothing could stop Luke from popping his head off right now in the middle of this conversation. Cornell can only do this because Luke allows him to do it.

Cornell excuses Luke with a hand wave and I want so badly for Luke to flip his desk, grab him by the throat, and lob him through the window. Seriously. Let's see how smug he is with a broken face, because Luke can do that and Cornell would be helpless to stop him.

"Enough with this defeatist bullshit." It was in that moment that Claire suddenly became Best Pony.

"If you make a move and you take him down once and for all, you stop him, you save this community, AND you free yourself!" Preach it, Best Pony!

What. Domingo's men all rush at Luke to meet him in fisticuffs despite the fact that Domingo is a crimelord and all of these assholes should be packing heat. Again, ridiculous action movie conventions are used to spare Luke from being gunned down by these assholes despite it being completely unnecessary because he is an invulnerable man.

Save that shit for DareDevil. It's okay to have people open fire on Luke.

There we go, now they're shooting. Bit late, but at least it's happening. Seriously, they should have drawn guns the moment a man came flying through the door, knocking it off its hinges.

"I'm about sick of always having to buy new clothes." Then maybe you should be more aggressive. Luke's really invested in this "stand still and intimidate solemnly" thing. He's a showoff. He stands there, lets people empty their clips into him, then does the slow-mo Jason Voorhees walk up to them and throws them at stuff. A bit more urgency like maybe trying to cross the room and drop them before they finish unloading might help save his outfits.

"I think I can pick you up, walk you over to the bridge, and throw your ass in the Hudson." See. This. Where the hell is this Luke when he's talking to Cornell? He's full of violence and bravado with everyone else, but the second Cornell walks in the room, Luke succumbs to Cutscene Incompetence or something and forgets how to superpowers.

"Who the hell is this guy? And who made him?" That's a great question. Up until now, I'd been assuming Luke didn't have a driver's license or SSN or any of that shit you need to legally exist as a citizen. You know, 'cause he's a fugitive operating under a false name. Why does he have these things? Did Reva set these up somehow?

The execution of Cornell's uncle is…this is something I've never understood in all the TV and movies I've seen. Why don't people fight? When they're being marched to their death, why don't they fight? Cornell's uncle just does what he's told, goes outside, and tries to argue with Cornell. Why doesn't he fight?

I see this so much. Someone puts a gun to your back and tells you to walk outside and you do it. They tell you to get on your knees and you do it. You might cry, you might pray, you might beg. But the one thing you don't do is fight. Even when you know goddamned well that they are going to kill you, you don't fight. You do what you're told and you let them murder you without so much as a token resistance.

Why does no one ever fight?

Oh, good. Cornell's victim-blaming Mariah for her own sexual assault. Now I have even less reason to feel bad for him if Luke finally gets the nerve to tear his spine out.

…or Mariah could beat him to death, neatly disposing of him without Luke having to dirty his hands in the process, just like how it works on DareDevil. Goddammit. Just what the Netflix shows needed; more villains who conveniently dispose of each other while the hero stands nearby and postures about how cool his moral high ground is.

"I didn't want this." "Deep down, I think you did." God, I hope this is just shitty dialogue. Given the context of what she just did, there's subtext in this exchange that suggests she secretly wanted Uncle Pete to molest her. Those sentences work as a transitional phrase; they're talking about the new thing, her killing Cornell, but the lines themselves also call back to her exclamations of "I didn't want it!" while she was bludgeoning him.

So Shades is talking about this murder, but she's talking about both events, and the scene is written in such a way that his answer simultaneously responds to both contexts.

But if they actually intended to make that connection then the writers are horrible people who are actively propagating the idea that women are at fault for being raped. So I really f*cking hope that was an accident.

"Look what Luke Cage did to your cousin." Man, if only. But then he might be, like, the main character or something and we can't have that.

"I should kill Cottonmouth but I won't. I want him to suffer." See, that sounds stupid as hell when villains say it, and it's no less stupid when you say it. And it's doubly stupid when you say it to a f*cking cop, inadvertantly framing yourself for his murder. God, everyone's an idiot in this episode.

And there's the Judas Bullet. A world filled with poisons, asphyxiations, and other clever ways to get around unbreakable skin for the sake of providing legitimate threat to our hero, and we went with "Alien super-bullet that just sorta ignores his powers because f*ck you, that's why." Not a great way to kick off the transition from Cornell to Diamondback.

This was not a good episode. I am very frustrated with how DareDevily the resolution of Cornell was. After seven episodes of Cornell steadily undergoing Villain Decay while Luke valiantly lets him get away with shit, he's bumped off by Mariah.

You know, for a chunk of the franchise that advertises itself as being darker and grittier, the Netflix shows sure are terrified of letting their heroes dirty their hands. Both Matt and Luke seem to be handicapped by this absolute dedication to not actually solving their own problems. Tony Stark might crack a joke every three words and smile a lot, but he actually wins his fights. Obadiah Stane didn't get casually bumped off by Whiplash while Tony was having a beer in the other room.

These shows want to be noir-ish but they also want their heroes to be squeaky clean Good Guys who only ever behave virtuously and would never, ever consider something so violent as punching their bad guy's face in. They're the most pacifistic take on Darker and Edgier that I've ever seen.

Captain America is Edgier than these guys.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74137: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:42:21 PM

Cornell's death is just nonsensical in several ways. Mariah, by slapping him, somehow manages to hit him with enough force to hurl him through a solid glass window reinforced with wooden beams. That'd require actual superhuman strength.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#74138: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:42:59 PM

Yeah, uh, you are really gonna hate Diamondback. Fuck, even I've started liking him less in retrospect.

As for that particular episode, I highly doubt that the writers intended on Cornell's slutshaming of Mariah to be right. It seemed more like Cornell trying in vain to defend somebody who he cared about while ignoring that the guy was a piece of shit too. Admittedly the only thing I really remembered about that episode were the flashbacks and Cornell's death.

[up]

I thought she pushed him?

edited 30th Aug '17 8:43:17 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#74139: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:45:29 PM

She slap-pushes him. It's still mildly surreal that she somehow manages to send him hurling through a wooden-beam-reinforced-solid-window with what is essentially a mild push. What was the window made of, Styrofoam?

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#74140: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:46:25 PM

...Maybe she's a Mutant?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#74141: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:52:09 PM

Its a genre convention thing-glass is always far more breakable in fiction than it is in real life.

Well not always-Trial & Error had a funny bit about that.

But yeah, I don't think the writers were in any way having Shades try to victim shame Mariah. He was, I felt, trying to imply that she had wanted to kill Cornell for a while-and he might be right.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74142: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:53:46 PM

That was the surface meaning of their exchange, absolutely. But the way that

  • "I didn't want to."
  • "Yeah, you did."

is the immediate next set of dialogue after

  • "I DIDN'T WANT TO! I DIDN'T WANT TO! I DIDN'T WANT TO!"

creates an association that I sincerely hope was accidental. That bit desperately needed to be phrased differently. In essence, Shades wasn't trying to victim-shame Mariah, but the specific choice of dialogue in what he says creates the impression that the writers are trying to victim-shame her.

It's a literary technique where characters are talking about one thing but the audience is meant to infer a different thing from the juxtaposition between their conversation and what else is happening.

edited 30th Aug '17 8:55:52 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#74143: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:54:31 PM

I'm gonna say it was accidental.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#74144: Aug 30th 2017 at 8:55:16 PM

I'm going to go for the least skeevy option for 500, Alex.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74145: Aug 30th 2017 at 9:01:12 PM

I don't think Mariah would necessarily need to be super-strong for that to work. She shoves him fairly hard, and while I don't think she expected him to go through the window, a full-grown man unexpectedly knocked off balance? People trip and go through windows, and Harlem's Paradise is an older building so maybe it's thin glass.

I mean, Luke Cage killing Cornell would still make him a murderer. He's already a fugitive who doesn't want to draw the attention he's already getting, and he's a guy who refuses to swear, so you can see why he's not okay with killing. Even cops aren't supposed to just go around using lethal force as a first resort. This is the whole reason Misty Knight is on the show, to show that the system can and does work if you let it, while Luke shows that you can help the law along without necessarily turning it into a war. If the example you show to criminals is that you're gonna kill them all, they'll just become that much more desperate.

Luke killing Cottonmouth wouldn't have solved anything. It would've made Luke a criminal all over again, and someone else would've stepped in and taken over Cottonmouth's operation. They might have gotten things back on rails, but even business as usual is still going to involve people getting hurt. That's how this all started, after all, with Chico and his friends.

[up][up][up]The subtext for me was that while she didn't *ever* want Uncle Pete's attention, when she says that she didn't want to kill Cornell, and Shades says she did, what he's talking about is her killing Pete, with Cornell as a stand-in for him. He's talking about her doing what Mama Mabel would have done.

edited 30th Aug '17 9:14:47 PM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74146: Aug 30th 2017 at 9:14:19 PM

This is the whole reason Misty Knight is on the show, to show that the system can and does work if you let it, while Luke shows that you can help the law along without necessarily turning it into a war.

Luke did turn it into a war. That's literally his only contribution to this thing: he's good at violence. He went to various places and did or threatened violence in order to mess with Cottonmouth's operation. The only violence he didn't try was the kind directed at Cottonmouth directly.

Misty showed that the system can't stop Cottonmouth because, end of the day, he walked away clean. Luke showed that half-measured attempts at kinda-sorta fighting Cottonmouth by being bulletproof in his vicinity but not really doing anything can't stop him either. Then Cottonmouth was abruptly murdered by his sister over a petty squabble that was thoroughly divorced from either Misty or Luke.

Like Murdock over in DareDevil, Misty and Luke ultimately achieved nothing in their twin campaigns against Cottonmouth. He skated from every attack, and was ultimately brought down by an old grudge wholly unrelated to them.

That is a problem, because Luke is supposed to be the protagonist of this show but from the beginning, his central character flaw has been that he doesn't really do anything. He doesn't have Matt's arguments about the moral high ground. Instead, his arguments are about whether or not he should leave, and he's so busy having them from both sides of the discussion that he doesn't seem to have time to drive the plot like he's supposed to.

Luke Cage is an object. How other characters respond to his existence is a greater driver of the plot than the things he actively does. His fighting style is reflective of his role in the story at large. He stands still in the center of the plot and is bulletproof, forcing Cottonmouth's forces to act around him.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74147: Aug 30th 2017 at 9:26:53 PM

There's war and there's war, you know? Nighttime raids aren't the same as charging into battle head-on. The thing about robbing Cottonmouth as opposed to laying siege to Harlem's Paradise is that yes, Cottonmouth can choose to escalate, but that's heat that he doesn't need either. He should know this, but he feels backed into a corner and goes on to make a series of bad calls, as Mariah and Shades keep on telling him. That Cottonmouth is constantly making mistakes is the point of his character. We're watching his Villainous Breakdown pretty much from episode 2 until now.

That's why Shades is there, to show how the villain *should* be acting, how Misty and Luke are expecting Cottonmouth to move, as a criminal motivated by self-interest...rather than that same scared kid pinned down under his aunt's expectations. That's a problem for Cottonmouth, as his flashbacks show: he's not a criminal because he wants the money, but because he was forced to be, and he's not trying to get Luke Cage because he actually cares about his reputation so much as because his whole sense of self will crumble if he doesn't maintain swagger at all times.

There's a reason why Cottonmouth laughs so much. Laughter's a pain response, and laughing everything off is just his way of trying to appear confident when he's really anything but.

Luke is making mistakes, too, though. He's meant to be. You're not wrong about his problem being that he's too passive. But Season 1 of Luke Cage is pretty much a season-long refusal of the call.I think it works. We'll see what you think after the next six (or was it five?) episodes.

edited 30th Aug '17 9:43:14 PM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74148: Aug 30th 2017 at 9:35:57 PM

I feel like biggest mistake here was letting Cornell walk free. They should have had him go to jail like he was going to at the end of episode six. Having Scarfe's evidence, maybe even letting him live to testify, is a perfect conclusion. Luke gets to actually do something by protecting Scarfe. Misty gets to show that the system works after taking down Cornell's other crooked cop. It's a great ending.

Episode seven ruined what should have been a fantastic conclusion to the Cottonmouth arc, while providing nothing of equivalent value. Instead, Misty and Luke both put in a decent effort, utterly fail, and that's the end of it.

That's really the problem here. Episode seven doesn't just have no value. It has negative value. By existing within it, it actively removes value from the series as a whole.

edited 30th Aug '17 9:37:50 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#74149: Aug 30th 2017 at 9:40:20 PM

Strongly disagree, since I like Cottonmouth a lot as a villain, a *failed* villain, and Episode 7 ("Manifest", big fan of the episode titles) is very much his episode...and Mariah's. Bearing in mind that at the time the show came out, people didn't know Cottonmouth was going to die, it was a twist I liked quite a bit, that imparted a lot of energy to a show that would feel more formulaic if he'd been properly beaten by the heroes.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#74150: Aug 30th 2017 at 9:45:14 PM

Sometimes formulaic is a bad thing and should generally be avoided.

When applied to things like, "The protagonist does stuff that results in the conflict being resolved," however, then I'm inclined to say some formulas became formula for a reason. I didn't start watching a show called Luke Cage to see Luke Cage be useless and fail a lot. I don't watch Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. hoping that the agents will f*ck everything up and their adversaries will conveniently dispose of themselves. The last thing I want from Captain America 5: Captain Harder is for Cap to spend the whole movie drinking coffee while somewhere, a bad guy slips on a banana peel and shoots himself in the face.

When Luke is threatened by a crime boss, I want that crime boss's comeuppance to be in some way driven by Luke. It's his show, he's supposed to do things. The last exchange Luke and Cornell ever had, Cornell actually won. He beat Luke. Maybe Luke's idea might have worked, and maybe it won't, but we'll never know because Cornell went to his grave victorious over the man who's supposed to be the hero.

EDIT: Also, I dispute that having the heroes properly beat Cornell without killing him would be formulaic, given that at least up to this point, that has literally never happened in the history of the Netflix shows. Closest we've come is Fisk, who repeatedly and consistently self-destructed while Murdock was nearby.

edited 30th Aug '17 9:51:40 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 186,763
Top