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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#73826: Aug 10th 2017 at 5:16:33 PM

I do think the Sovereign are necessary as a fake main villain, though, to throw the scent off of Ego. Without them, you're left with just the dumb mutineers who are obviously not Big Bad material, making it too obvious that Ego will be the final villain from a meta-narrative perspective.

edited 10th Aug '17 5:18:01 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73827: Aug 10th 2017 at 5:18:50 PM

I'm glad they're there. The Ravagers' mutiny has a great, great payoff, but it's awfully convenient for them to show up when they do, even if it's employed that Yondu's Ravagers are specifically employed because of their connection to Peter.

Their arrival would seem less convenient if it was the Ravagers, not the Sovereign, who shot down the Milano. Like I said, the movie had no pressing need for a source of mooks.

EDIT: Also, if the intent was to mask the fact that Ego's the villain, having his first appearance in the film be to godstomp the Sovereign's fleet in a single blow certainly didn't help. We meet Ultimate Destroyer Ego before we even know his name.

edited 10th Aug '17 5:22:55 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73828: Aug 10th 2017 at 5:26:50 PM

Eh, I don't think they were really trying to hide Ego's villainy from anyone except the Guardians themselves, and even there, Mantis starts hinting that something's off almost as soon as we meet them. Another pulp trope.

Both the Sovereign and the Ravagers might have worked better if they were even more divorced from the proceedings, if it were even *more* a case of random bad luck causing all these things to pile up at once. That's very true to the kind of story and characters we've got here.

edited 10th Aug '17 5:33:15 PM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73829: Aug 10th 2017 at 5:30:30 PM

Also, in the first Guardians movie, Yondu outright calls Ego a jackass as his rationale for not delivering Peter to him. So. Like. I really don't think it's that much of a surprise in the film when Ego turns out to be a jackass.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73830: Aug 10th 2017 at 5:40:07 PM

Guardians 1 and Guardians 2 are pretty even to me. They both have things over the other film, but neither stands out from the other in terms of quality.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#73831: Aug 10th 2017 at 6:00:38 PM

[up][up]The average moviegoer isn't really going to piece all that together right away, though. A lot of people I know who saw the film were genuinely surprised when Ego turned out to be evil, even those who saw the first film.

People like you and I and the rest of this thread just walk a genre-savvier path.

edited 10th Aug '17 6:01:08 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
JRads47 Since: Nov, 2014
#73832: Aug 10th 2017 at 6:15:39 PM

I think the Sovereign had a decent presence. My only real gripe is that they kind of kill the possibility of Adam Warlock in Infinity War.

Overall, I'd say that both movies are pretty even, but Vol. 2 edges out because Ego > Ronan in my opinion.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73833: Aug 10th 2017 at 6:23:08 PM

Ego's the deeper, more interesting character, obviously, and if you're counting every sweeping vista of the Living Planet as an extension of Kurt Russell, then he gets some pretty great visual moments as well. But all his best scenes tend to belong to Peter more than him, which is understandable and not really a problem per se. But it does mean that Ronan owns his scenes in a way Ego doesn't, and as a pure, scenery-devouring, mustache-and-top-hat evil overlord, I do like what Lee Pace pulls off with Ronan. I wish we could see more of him, which is praise I wouldn't necessarily give for most of the MCU's other one-and-done Big Bads.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#73834: Aug 10th 2017 at 6:58:03 PM

Ego having a slave girl on his ship really should have been more of a red flag for the Guardians.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#73835: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:13:14 PM

I think Ego was a good example of a well done villain not needing to have a sympathetic backstory. He's a complete asshole and a sociopath, but god damn did I find him entertaining to watch.

JRads47 Since: Nov, 2014
#73836: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:22:42 PM

[up][up][up]He could appear in Captain Marvel since the Kree have a beef with the Skrulls.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#73837: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:23:44 PM

The thing about Ego is that I don't think he was being deliberately deceitful about being in love with Meredith or wanting to bond with Peter. He genuinely wanted to.

He's just too alien- too fundamentally different from all other life in the galaxy -to actually experience that kind of interpersonal connection, but he deluded himself into believing he could feel love without ever realizing that casually murdering your children in droves or putting a tumor in your girlfriend's brain are not how one goes about expressing that love. After all, it's not like he's the one dying, so it can't be that wrong, can it? As a solitary, unique specimen he presumably never evolved an instinctual urge to protect anything but his own life the way other lifeforms did.

edited 10th Aug '17 7:25:11 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73838: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:29:05 PM

I also always got the feeling that he put the cancer in Meredith's head specifically because he was starting to care too much for her and was straying him from his path. The way he says "It really hurt me to put the tumor in her head" always struck me as genuine, like he genuinely feels somewhat bad about it, but felt hey, it had to be done.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73839: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:31:19 PM

That's how I take it too. I try to take villains' emotions at face value, and that was a profound one. I do believe that he viewed it as a Necessary Evil.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73840: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:32:29 PM

[up]x4 ...Dang, I hadn't thought of that. Flashbacks! That would be *awesome*.

And yeah, while I don't think Ego's actions are understandable in the sense of being sympathetic, I can see how, from his perspective, dying of a tumour in a few years or old age in a few decades is a completely meaningless difference. He's millions of years old, it's a drop in the ocean. It still makes him a monster, but not necessarily a malicious one: he's a manifestation of an uncaring universe, incapable of understanding what it means to truly care for anyone other than himself, because he never even *met* anyone else until he was already millions of years old.

[up][up]That too.

edited 10th Aug '17 7:54:14 PM by Unsung

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#73841: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:33:14 PM

[up][up][up]That's not a feeling you're having, that's explicitly what he says in the movie. That his love for Meredith was steering him away from his life's goal so he killed her to keep himself focused, the same way you might throw out your fattening foods to stay on a diet or turn off your phone so it doesn't distract you during work.

Obviously it doesn't make him any less of an asshole, but it does add some interesting depth to the character that a lot of villains lack.

edited 10th Aug '17 7:34:11 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73842: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:45:17 PM

I say "feeling I have" because I remember a lot of discussion when the movie came out whether he was being sincere about it or not.

To me, the idea of Ego is that he is somewhat capable of empathy, but only in a superficial level. Ego is, as it so appears, first and foremost a thrill-seeker. He is frequently bored and his existence spins around finding ways to entertain himself (thus the vast landscape he created for himself and his love for earthly music, also his quips about how he enjoyed "mixing his DNA" with other species). He's a hedonist at his core. So his connection to people is colored under that lens and that lens alone. Meredith was to Ego what chocolate is to you or me, a tasty entertainment but just that, and the point that entertainment starts to be costly in some way (so get in the way of Ego's shenanigans or in our case, health problems), we cut it out. We all love chocolate but not like we would love a person. I think.

And likewise, only a monster would put a tumor in a chocolate.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#73843: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:52:23 PM

Correct, I don't love chocolate the same amount I would love another person.

I love chocolate more.

edited 10th Aug '17 7:54:32 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73844: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:53:59 PM

Found the Living Planet. Someone turn into a gigantic pacman and tackle him.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#73845: Aug 10th 2017 at 7:57:03 PM

Don't make me bury you in pulsating blue stuff.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#73846: Aug 10th 2017 at 10:55:24 PM

I sure walk into some mighty strange conversations around here.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73847: Aug 11th 2017 at 12:58:27 AM

The Sovereign do have a purpose in the plot...partly they provide action scenes, partly they are needed for the conflict between Rocket and Peter and partly they do serve as a smoke screen concerning the true villain. Savvy movie goers are naturally onto Ego the moment he turns up, but at least beforehand they offered a possible alternative in the advertising. I would also add that they are the reason why the Ravengers are looking for Peter in the first place, but that is actually something they could have explained away with the crew wanting revenge for him stealing the stone.

When it comes to Ronan vs Ego...I see Ronan as a traditional Disney Villain, hammy and with no need for a lot of motivation. The important part about him is that he is a believable threat and comes close to killing the heroes multiple times (and that he doesn't manage is not due to incompetence, but because they are too insignificant in his eyes to ensure that they are actually dead). Ego on the other hand is more one of those modern surprise villain. It is not much a surprise - but then, neither are the Disney ones, the only time they pulled of a surprise was with King Candy and in this case the surprise was more his actual identity and not that he was evil. Ego is similar. It is not really a surprise that he is a villain, but I nevertheless bought into him loving Meredith and being excited about having found Peter - because in both cases he actually is from his own perspective.

Bottom line: Ronan is more entertaining, but there has never been a villain I hated as much as I hate Ego. He is really crossing all lines.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#73849: Aug 11th 2017 at 6:42:08 AM

[up] Loki Vs Hela, eh?

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.

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