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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#73651: Aug 4th 2017 at 2:20:39 AM

Of course they will. Civil War literally ended with Steve saying that he harboured ko hard feelings and would always be there if Tony needed help and Tony ignored Ross's call for help with the breakout.

Pretending otherwise is just silly.

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#73652: Aug 4th 2017 at 2:22:29 AM

[up][up] But what if Steve and his team get pardoned as well in the event Tony dies as well? Or what if both survive and eventually settle their differences? That's what I'm wondering at the moment.

And given that this is the final arc that started since 2008, it opens the possibilities of what could phase 4 be about.

edited 4th Aug '17 2:22:56 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#73653: Aug 4th 2017 at 2:25:48 AM

There needs to be something significant that makes them settle their differences (besides "there's a big threat," given that already didn't really work in Civil War) or else the drama from Civil War will end up being even cheaper than it already is. If they both survive, I'm about fifty fifty on whether they'll still end up one big happy team by the end.

Either way, Cap and Tony have already essentially settled their differences - that's what the whole letter bit was about at the end of Civil War.

On an entirely unrelated note, something I've been wondering about is - as apposed to dying to whatever - if the Infinity War movies end with someone from Earth deciding to stay in space (or vice versa), or something equally out there and strange.

edited 4th Aug '17 2:28:44 AM by KnownUnknown

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#73654: Aug 4th 2017 at 2:40:27 AM

[up] Before I answer your question, didn't they said that despite the ending implying that they don't harbor hard feelings, the film would at least start with the two still having a strained friendship?

Pagetopper again.

edited 4th Aug '17 2:40:38 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73655: Aug 4th 2017 at 5:48:28 AM

Nothing has really been cleared yet between Steve and Tony. They have more or less a peace agreement for now, but that doesn't mean that all the hard feelings are suddenly just gone. They just made first steps which might lead to them working together in the future, nothing more, nothing less.

Plus, even if the Avengers themselves find common ground again, the Accords won't just vanish. The need to get amended to work for everyone, desperately.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73656: Aug 4th 2017 at 6:08:35 AM

I do expect the Avengers to reconcile in Infinity War. I don't expect the Accords to be handled very delicately or for the audience to learn what, if anything, has changed beyond that something has. The way I see it, it's going to get swept under the rug in one of three ways:

  1. They beat Thanos and then we get a brief bit about how Tony convinced them to modify the Accords and there's a scene of Steve going, "Yep, this is good now," and signing.
  2. They beat Thanos and then we get a brief bit about how the world was so thankful that they repealed the Accords entirely and nobody ever tried to rein in the Avengers again.
  3. They beat Thanos, the Avengers reconcile, and the Accords are conveniently ignored and never talked about again.

The Accords, like the SHRA, are a bad plot point to introduce for a superhero story because it puts a lot of narrative focus on Necessary Weasels best left ignored, and because a satisfying resolution would have to be more politically complex than superhero writers want to put into a superhero story. It's not a Bad Guy who you can punch until it surrenders, and that's really the kind of conflict where the superhero genre is comfortable.

So whatever happens, it will inevitably feel tacked on if it's ever even brought up again at all. Not unlike the SHRA, which was resolved with "And then Steve Rogers became Director of SHIELD somehow and he just told the government to repeal it. THE END."

edited 4th Aug '17 6:13:27 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#73658: Aug 4th 2017 at 6:16:18 AM

[up][up][up]I see.

Also, what could be the outcome of Infinity War and its sequels for the Avengers? Could it end in peace? Or still end in tragedy?

[up]Well shit.

edited 4th Aug '17 6:16:38 AM by Luigisan98

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73659: Aug 4th 2017 at 6:16:56 AM

How would any of us know that?

Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#73660: Aug 4th 2017 at 6:21:25 AM

[up] Something of an question I started on the previous page. In regards whether the Avengers will eventually reunite or stay separated despite what they've endured.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73661: Aug 4th 2017 at 6:53:17 AM

  • sigh*...I just hope that the show deserves this harsh judgement and this isn't another case like Ao S or Iron Fist were too high expectations and a weak start ended up in a show getting way more flack than it deserved.

I am kind of surprised though that there are already first screeners send to the press. I actually didn't think that the special effects are done yet.

thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#73662: Aug 4th 2017 at 6:56:23 AM

Okay first of all Iron Fist had it coming.

Second did you see the trailers ?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#73663: Aug 4th 2017 at 7:22:16 AM

Iron Fist had expectations?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73664: Aug 4th 2017 at 7:34:45 AM

Yeah, you don't get a pass for a weak start when you're talking about shows that drop as a full season, like Iron Fist, or shows that have been in development as long as Inhumans has been. And after five seasons, if AOS still hasn't found the kind of audience share ABC's been looking for, a weak start isn't to blame.

edited 4th Aug '17 7:35:12 AM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73665: Aug 4th 2017 at 7:50:41 AM

Naturally Iron Fist had expectations...it after all doesn't exist in a vacuum, but is compared to the other Netflix shows which are all highly acclaimed. It also didn't help that the best episodes of the show were at the back-end of the season, while the critics only had the first six episodes to watch.

And Ao S is a victim of unfairly bad Wo M. The show is all kinds of awesome!!! It is running circles around all the other comic book shows on network TV with its steady character development and unpredictable story-telling. Not to mention that it just did Flashpoint better than the Flash did!

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#73666: Aug 4th 2017 at 7:56:48 AM

Barely anybody was hyped for Iron Fist. I remember it, people expressed skepticism because of the showrunner and because of Jones being less prolific than the other three Defenders, plus of course the issue with the characters being a Mighty Whitey. And I still don't get why people insist it somehow got good in the second half. It got better but it didn't get good.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73667: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:11:21 AM

There were some reasonably high expectations of Iron Fist because, despite the showrunner being who he is, it's still a Marvel Netflix show. Netflix and Marvel are both brands associated with amazing quality, observable by the fact Daredevil, JJ and LC are now seen as some of the best pieces of superhero media in the history of superhero media, so of course IF had expectations to it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#73668: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:12:33 AM

I don't remember them going too high. Like, yeah some were optimistic but more in a cautious manner.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#73669: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:14:13 AM

I think regardless of hype, it's really not accurate to say the only reason Iron Fist didn't get good reviews was because expectations were too high.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#73670: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:16:42 AM

It was a lot less hype than the other Defenders for the aforementioned reasons, but still reasonably hype. This was most noticeable outside of the general internet circles we tend to hang out in. When I was in the Brazilian comic-con experience, people were ecstatic when the cast of IF came there for a visit.

Granted, as [up] said, Hype Backlash was far from being IF's only problem, but it was a contributing factor.

edited 4th Aug '17 8:18:05 AM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#73671: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:17:03 AM

[up]x8 I sure did, and while I didn't mind the costumes, God was Maximus' actor atrocious. And the other actors weren't too hot either from what we saw of them. I want to give it a chance, but it's not really giving me the best first impression here.

edited 4th Aug '17 8:17:51 AM by kkhohoho

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#73672: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:19:03 AM

Ramsey Snow sucked to most people?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#73674: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:22:00 AM

Iron Fist got bad reviews because it was a bad show. Agents of SHIELD got better but it had to shake off the really bad aspects that earned it a lot of ire, and even then its low viewership is to do with scheduling and promotion issues in addition to said bad start. I think ABC originally pitted it against NCIS of all shows?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73675: Aug 4th 2017 at 8:32:53 AM

AOS is a mixed bag genre-wise. Spy show? Superhero show? Successor to X-Files and Fringe? You don't have to choose!

I think it's great, myself, but I do think that no matter how good it is, there are going to be a lot of people where that's just not what they're looking for, where they're never going to like the genre-busting inherent to the show's premise.


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