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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73626: Aug 2nd 2017 at 8:16:20 PM

Was it a stakeout? It was a lead, but not a hard lead, and part of the problem with tracking a spy like Rumlow is that the more people you involve, the higher the chances of him getting wind of you. He was up there in Hydra, and they had all kinds of assets all over the world.

It was a difficult situation, and people got hurt. That is a risk, but I think, as Cap says, it's part of the job and a decision that people in charge are asked to make every day. Part of Tony's problem is that for all his big picture understanding of things on an intellectual level, he's not great at being emotionally objective now that he's actually forcing himself to own up to his responsibilities. Being a manchild up to the age of 40, he doesn't have that experience, and he's set in his ways.

edited 2nd Aug '17 11:44:51 PM by Unsung

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73627: Aug 2nd 2017 at 9:06:17 PM

Yes, it was a stakeout. Everyone was in various positions watching a police station that they mistakenly believed to be Rumlow's target and waiting for him to show up.

edited 2nd Aug '17 9:07:04 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73628: Aug 2nd 2017 at 9:09:17 PM

I thought the way they were talking made it sound like they had just gotten there. They're taking up positions and viewpoints, but it didn't seem like they'd been staking this place out for weeks knowing for a certainty that Rumlow was going to be there. It's been a while since I saw it, though.

edited 2nd Aug '17 11:46:07 PM by Unsung

MedusaStone Since: Jan, 2015
#73629: Aug 2nd 2017 at 9:57:21 PM

What's the government of Lagos like? I ask because if they were dealing with limited time and corrupt officials that might well tip off the bad guys rather than arresting them, then I can see why Steve would've felt like they had to take action RIGHT NOW. If it was actually an upstanding government, then maybe they could've called the authorities, tagged the vehicles, and just followed from a distance?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73630: Aug 2nd 2017 at 11:27:05 PM

For the record, Scott WAS informed about the whole situation. Clint had after all hours to do it. The first thing Steve ask Scott when he sees him is if he knows what is going on and Scott becomes serious and says yes. Then Steve warns him (apparently again) that he might end up in prison for this and if he is really up to it. Sure, in this moment he is standing in front of Captain America, but apparently he had hours to think about it. Other than Peter apparently who barely had any understanding what was going on and mostly wanted to impress "Mr. Stark".

But yeah, it is kind of funny that Cap picked someone for his team who is very Tony-like and Tony picked someone who is very Cap-like.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73631: Aug 2nd 2017 at 11:39:30 PM

Definitely not a coincidence that the highly iconic Spider-Man is somewhere in the middle of Cap and Iron Man. That was his role in the original Civil War, no?

[up][up]Police and political corruption have been and continue to be an issue in Nigeria, for what it's worth.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#73632: Aug 3rd 2017 at 12:24:35 AM

I read an account of the tie in comics that makes Steve's actions in Lagos even worse.

According to what was said, Sam and Steve heard rumours of an ex Hydra operative in Lagos. Thinking it could be Bucky, they decided to follow up on it with Natasha and Wanda tagging along for some reason. It wasn't until they got there that they realised it was Rumulow.

So not only did they act on incomplete information but they don't even have the excuse of being in Lagos to stop criminals. They were just indulging Steve's obsession with Barnes.

And while there is the problem of potential corruption within the Lagos authorities, it isn't like not telling them made things much better now did it?

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73633: Aug 3rd 2017 at 12:29:44 AM

Telling them could have tipped off Rumlow, meaning he might disappear for another year or however long it had been since Winter Soldier. All they were trying to do was catch him— there was no particular reason for them to think, or any real way for them to know, that he'd suicide bomb a whole city block if he was in danger of being caught. That...escalated quickly.

edited 3rd Aug '17 2:09:27 AM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73634: Aug 3rd 2017 at 1:31:28 AM

[up][up] The Tie-in comics often contradict the movies (they do it often enough that I don't even consider them truly canon). In this case Steve already knows that Rumlow is the guy they are searching for when the movie starts and he has a bunch of newspaper article about him attacking in other countries with the respective police in said countries being unable to stop him. So, no, in the movie he isn't there because of Bucky...it might be possible that his search for Bucky put him on the trace of Rumlow, but just looking for Bucky wouldn't be a crime.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73636: Aug 3rd 2017 at 7:00:22 AM

[up] Well, more she thinks that there were discussions...very vague.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73637: Aug 3rd 2017 at 11:37:17 AM

Clint had after all hours to do it. The first thing Steve ask Scott when he sees him

is if he knows what is going on and Scott becomes serious and says yes.

No, he doesn't. This is their exact exchange.

  • Steve: They tell you what we're up against?
  • Scott: Something about some psycho assassins?
  • Steve: We're outside the law on this one. So if you come with us, you're a wanted man.
  • Scott: (shrug) Yeah, well, what else is new.

Nothing about Scott's behavior in this scene indicates he has any idea what he's actually stepping into. The fact that he knows about the assassins indicates that Clint at least tried to brief him, but his cavalier attitude also indicates that he wasn't really paying attention.

He's really just here to do awesome Avengers stuff with the Avengers and doesn't seem to be overly concerned with the details until they land him in the Raft.

edited 3rd Aug '17 11:38:26 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73638: Aug 3rd 2017 at 11:42:26 AM

[up] Scott always acts that way. But even if you are right, this is definitely on Scott, not on Cap, and Scott is a grown up man.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73639: Aug 3rd 2017 at 11:46:07 AM

It doesn't matter whose fault it is. The topic of conversation was, "Why would Scott rush out to become a wanted international fugitive immediately after reconciling with his daughter? That makes no sense and is completely out of character!"

To which the answer was, "I don't think he really had any idea what he was getting into." Precisely who is to blame for that is beside the point. He did it because he didn't see it as becoming an international fugitive who will be put into prison for the rest of his natural life if caught. He saw it as, "Captain America wants me to be an Avenger! Yippee!"

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#73640: Aug 3rd 2017 at 11:47:05 AM

In fairness.

IN FAIRNESS.

The Avengers have a great benefits package.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#73641: Aug 3rd 2017 at 11:51:33 AM

Also, it's not clear if Scott was ever briefed on the situation with the Sokovia Accords. Cap just says "We're outside the law."

That can mean anything from speeding to committing flagrant acts of genocide. It's a pretty wide umbrella.

edited 3rd Aug '17 11:51:52 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#73642: Aug 3rd 2017 at 12:17:00 PM

[up] I think if you have to sneak into another country it is a pretty clear indicator that the matter is serious.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#73643: Aug 3rd 2017 at 6:56:57 PM

Looks like the Kree are coming back to Agents of SHIELD in Season 5. Wonder if they will lay some groundwork stuff for Captain Marvel.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#73644: Aug 3rd 2017 at 7:18:54 PM

As long as they're still the universe's biggest assholes.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73645: Aug 3rd 2017 at 7:33:55 PM

[up][up]Maybe, hopefully, though it's probably more to do with Inhumans, which... Ehhh.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#73646: Aug 3rd 2017 at 7:37:49 PM

I like the Inhumans as represented through Agents of SHIELD.

Its good stuff.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#73647: Aug 3rd 2017 at 8:12:35 PM

I like Inhumans, but not Inhumans.

...by which I mean my 'Ehhh' was reserved for the series. Inhumans as characters are fine.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#73648: Aug 3rd 2017 at 8:22:27 PM

I like Skye Daisies and Yoyo more than I like any other Inhuman that is not Kamala, Lunella, or Lockjaw.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#73649: Aug 4th 2017 at 1:03:46 AM

Say guys, for the next Avengers Infinity films...what do you think in how the teams will end up after Thanos's done for. Do you think they'll reconcile their differences and assemble once more? Or were the rifts too much for them to handle that even after everything, they feel they are unworthy of being together? I'd say I'll go for the former because it would work out with the topic of team work and trust from the MCU.

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#73650: Aug 4th 2017 at 2:18:23 AM

I think it depends on how badly Thanos wrecks their shit. Coming into and going through Infinity War, it would probably be teamwork by necessity. There may even be a sense of superhero-styled Working the Same Case with a lot of splintered groups before they have to fight together.

But at the same time, Civil War wasn't really personal. Not even Tony or Steve really had anything against one another, even by the end. Tony probably still hates Bucky's guts, but Bucky's still on Earth and Tony's about to have space adventures. And there's even less bad blood among the other Avengers.

They're about to be way out of the Accords' jurisdiction and working with space mercenaries with a history of doing heroic things carte blanche (amusing that we're getting a conflict that basically invalidates the Accords basically immediately after all that drama), so - at least in Hollywood - the Legal Avengers have less reason to try to arrest the Fugitive Avengers on sight or anything, and the Fugitive Avengers have no reason to make an issue out of it.

And if Thanos kills Cap or Tony, we can probably expect the fugitive thing to just straight up end: either Cap dies and Tony pulls strings to get the others pardoned, Tony dies and Cap surrenders out of respect, or they both die and the others decide it's not worth fighting about anymore. If not, then you still have their personalities to continue carrying that plotline.

edited 4th Aug '17 2:19:36 AM by KnownUnknown


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