Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
edited 12th Jul '17 11:27:27 PM by alliterator
The MCU is a piece of fiction that chose to create a fictional character who is demonstrably vulnerable to forces reproducible or surpassable by modern ordnance, in the same way that Star Wars is a fictional universe where the heroes are humans who can be killed by things that kill real humans. The reason for this is to establish the stakes and thus allow the narrative to unfold. In the same way that Hulk kicking a guy through a building establishes his strength, these scenes establish his limits; because we, in reality, are expected to recognize these feats and what they mean. To have a coherent piece of fiction, the rules of the universe need to be established, and the MCU is very much Like Reality Unless Otherwise Noted.
So no, I'm not simply going to submit to you and say we can never try to talk about any piece of fiction in a coherent or logical manner or apply any sort of realism, especially when the fiction itself tries to base its premise (in this case, Civil War) on Reality Ensues.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:32:46 PM by MonsieurThenardier
"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."I don't see how Wanda doesn't qualify as human from a legal standpoint. There's no laws in any legal system that I know of that revoke a person's status as homo sapiens, let alone as a consequence of developing unusual traits. Especially since she wasn't born with her powers as far as we know.
Vision is the only real "legal uncharted territory" as far as that goes.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:29:35 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Yeah, fuck this. I'm out until this conversation dies or until certain people get banned.
My various fanfics.Steve tried to get into the military with false information, endangered a civilian in a unsanctioned rescue mission during war time, released the info of numerous innocent SHIELD agents leaving them and those close to them vulnerable to every unfriendly out there, allowed a terrorist who'd violated his team to join them, assaulted police officers doing their job and withheld information about the murder of a teammate's parents from said teammates.
The man's moral compass is so fucked up, I'm amazed he can tell up from down.
A few points:
1) Any piece of real world metal would not be able to withstand the sort of punishment Tony puts his regular armor through, let alone his Hulkbuster suit, so I don't think you can really guage how hard its hits are without knowing how hard the suit itself is.
2) I'm pretty sure the Hulk is supposed to have some sort of healing factor, so being able to hurt him does not equal being able to kill him.
3) More than any other MCU character, the Hulk runs on Strong as They Need to Be. In The Avengers, he gets knocked out by a terminal velocity fall, but later gets bombared by dozens of Chitauri energy blasts (which were previously shown to have bazooka-like destructive force) and, while seemingly hurt by them, displays no visible damage and is perfectly capable of fighting through it.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:33:56 PM by alliterator
edited 12th Jul '17 11:46:25 PM by MonsieurThenardier
"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."Then I'll link it here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14617490830A31767500&page=127
edited 12th Jul '17 11:38:08 PM by alliterator
You say, while presenting no evidence.
[Go to the Civil War thread if you have some]
If you want to get super nitpicky, I've actually seen some people measure that Leviathan punch scene based on the creature's momentum. The force of his punch is about on par with a medium semi-truck crash, and a few hundred times greater than that of a heavyweight boxer's punch.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:40:26 PM by MonsieurThenardier
"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."So, hey, how about that Squirrel Girl? She's awesome, I can't wait for the show. Also, Squirrel Girl can kick everyone's asses, no problem.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:43:00 PM by alliterator
You made the assertion that this scene proved his strength drastically varied and/or that he was stronger than modern ordnance could handle. What do you base that assertion if you're not only going to not attempt to measure or quantify the scene in any way, but get angry when someone actually does? You're debunking your own premise.
"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."The Abomination is much, much smaller than a Leviathan. Therefore, according to science, the Leviathan is much more massive and, therefore, has more weight to it (according to gravity, etc). Much more, because they are entirely different sizes. The Hulk has trouble fighting against the Abomination — he hits him several times, but the Abomination doesn't fall down. However, one punch from the Hulk and the Leviathan is not only down, but dead. Therefore, two different strength levels. QED, whatever, there you go, you're wrong, move on.
Squirrel Girl could kick the Hulk's ass, by the way.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:52:13 PM by alliterator
BTW, this isn't really a Civil War discussion, now that I think about it.
edited 13th Jul '17 12:01:48 AM by MonsieurThenardier
"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."![]()
Yes, even the US military. Who are, apparently, complete Mary Sues who can kill anyone and anything if they wanted to.
But not Squirrel Girl. Squirrel Girl befriended Galactus. Squirrel Girl beat Thanos. Squirrel Girl beat Doom twice. Squirrel Girl mocks you with her awesomeness.
edited 13th Jul '17 12:03:08 AM by alliterator
A few more points, then:
1) When someone says something is made out of titanium, they generally mean a titanium alloy, rather than pure titanium. Even if that's not what Tony meant, it doesn't change the fact that his armor exhibits strength and hardness far beyond what real life titanium or its alloys can achieve.
2) Since we don't know how much the Hulk weighs, it's hard to say for sure, but the two falls from airplanes shouldn't have that much different impact, due to him reaching terminal velocity.
3) I haven't been able to find a clip online to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that when the Chitauri are blasting Hulk, all their energy beams are hitting his body, so there's no reason for the roof to be damaged. But if they were hitting the roof and doing no damage, then that's just further proof that the power and effectiveness of attacks is wildly inconsistent, since we know the Hulk is bulletproof, so attacks that weak shouldn't harm him.
And just to add a further point:
4) Thor can swing his hammer with such force that the impact of it hitting Cap's shield creates a shockwave so big it knocks trees over, yet this somehow doesn't let him take the Hulk down with one half-strength hit.

Yeah, the whole "The US military can kill anything" mindset is really not suitable for the MCU, which is an inherently unrealistic universe. Trying to prove that the real-world military can kill a completely fictional character or stop a completely fictional alien invasion is the definition of pointless.