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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#72651: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:31:07 PM

I never really read the comics so I guess I'm not really that upset about it, I guess? I dunno.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
warrior93 warrior93 from North Carolina Since: Feb, 2011
warrior93
#72652: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:45:37 PM

I was for the Sokovia Accords until Agents of Shield and I think the accords was a big plot point in season 4.

If all people with powers have to register why would Peter Parker be okay with that?

edited 12th Jul '17 1:46:47 PM by warrior93

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#72653: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:47:11 PM

Most of Season 4 was about "magic", eldritch stuff, LMD's, a pseudo-Matrix, and other stuff, the Accords were just kinda in the background in maybe the first chunk of the season.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#72654: Jul 12th 2017 at 1:51:15 PM

Technically the Inhumans/Watchdogs subplot feeds back into the Accords, though inverted somewhat in that registration is at least partially about keeping Inhumans hidden.

Anything Watchdog-related has been one of the weaker parts of the show all in all, though, so other than hoping we see more of Nitro, I'm not sorry to see them lose focus.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#72655: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:30:36 PM

For the record, the index has been around in Ao S since season one...episode 3 or 4 was the first time it got mentioned, I think. So it is logical that in the wake of the Sokovia accord the index becomes kind of mandatory (it already was beforehand). Though Coulson's attitude about it has changed in the meantime.

All in all though this is something which is playing more in the background of the show. It has other things to worry about last season than the ethical question of putting people on lists. Though I really don't see this contradicting the movies. The choice for the Avengers was from the get go to operate under government control or not at all. One would expect that the government would want to expand this rule to all beings with special abilities.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#72656: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:44:27 PM

Why should one expect that? The Accords are about legitimizing the Avengers by folding their paramilitary operation into the existing command structure and converting them into an actual military operation.

No part of it involves making random people register their superpowers for a government database. It's no more a natural evolution of the Accords than Nuremberg registration is a natural evolution of the U.N.'s Blue Berets forming.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#72657: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:54:37 PM

I keep hearing that Spider-Man is on the Accords from people who watched the film, so it seems like Tobias' explanation is the one being kept.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#72658: Jul 12th 2017 at 2:59:41 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Yeah, gonna agree on that. The Watchdogs are one of those plot details that are rather weak and kind of piss poor compared to a season involving Ghost Rider, LMD's, the Matrix, a robot antagonist that's a better Ultron than the actual Ultron, and tons and tons of thinly veiled jabs at current modern politics.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#72659: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:08:28 PM

Yet another reason AOS isn't canon.wink

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#72660: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:16:22 PM

Regardless of its canonicity it's still a rather good series.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#72661: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:19:29 PM

It actually is. It's got a few missteps here or there but it's definitely one of the best products in the MCU otherwise.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72662: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:21:52 PM

I like how Luke has to hunch WAY over to be eye level with Matt in the poster, if he didn't his face would go partially off the top of the frame! Also that Luke, Danny, and Matt are all in fighting stances while Jessica doesn't even bother.

edited 12th Jul '17 3:22:11 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#72663: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:26:22 PM

Also, Luck just has a hubcap. Just...out of nowhere.

Where does he keep it? Does he carry it with him all the time?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#72664: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:31:28 PM

If Luke Cage wanted a hubcap, I'm pretty sure he could just snag one from any car he wanted, but I think that's actually a manhole cover, like from his series. They're fairly iconic of New York and being strong enough to pick up and throw one like a discus is something of a Luke Cage signature move. They just look different from the bottom.

edited 12th Jul '17 5:19:47 PM by Unsung

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#72665: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:32:58 PM

[up]...Erm, thanks. Though it kinda looks pretty silly.

edited 12th Jul '17 3:33:55 PM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#72666: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:35:48 PM

I like everyone in that poster, personally.

  • Danny looks like he was trying to look tough but right before the camera snapped, he was struck by the question of whether he left the stove on back home.
  • Luke tried asking repeatedly for people to give him space 'cause he's a big man, but nobody listened, so now he's pretending to be a truck and just shouldering through while humming out a honking noise.
  • Jessica didn't even realize she was supposed to be in a fighting stance at all. She's staring transfixed at a very delicious pizza just offscreen.
  • Matt's got a solid fighting stance going, but then he was like, "Yeah, I got this, I'm ready to—holy shit, that IS a delicious looking pizza."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#72667: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:37:26 PM

[up][up]Here's one.

Yeah, it's not easy to tell what it is in that shot, and I don't think a lot of people get that it's a deliberate character nod. Quite possibly including the photographer.

[up]C'mon, if Daredevil could be distracted by delicious pizza, he'd never sleep, living in New York. He might have to go on some sort of mad crusade against crime in the city and let the police sirens replace pizza's siren call, and that'd just be crazy

edited 12th Jul '17 3:44:14 PM by Unsung

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#72668: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:38:35 PM

I kind of want an edit to that poster where Luke is standing up straight and the top of the poster cuts off just below his eyes.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#72669: Jul 12th 2017 at 3:46:22 PM

...Isn't Murdock blind? Or is that pizza so delicious looking, even blind people can see how good it looks?

edited 12th Jul '17 3:46:31 PM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#72670: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:02:13 PM

Again, Ao S absolutely IS canon. It is not like the government has its secret list out there in the open.

It is also an absolute awesome show. It is great to see that it has gotten some traction and positive buzz lately. If enough people catch up, the show might have more of a future than anyone predicted. It is rare that in a series the fourth season is the best.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#72671: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:07:35 PM

[up][up]...Smell? Heightened senses? World on fire, that whole deal?

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#72672: Jul 12th 2017 at 4:09:43 PM

[up]I'd assumed he meant literally seeing it.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#72673: Jul 12th 2017 at 6:00:58 PM

Why should one expect that? The Accords are about legitimizing the Avengers by folding their paramilitary operation into the existing command structure and converting them into an actual military operation.

The idea behind the Accords was curtailing powerful, "gifted" people who had the potential and will to break laws to exert their own authority or flaunt existing authority without adequate systems in place to control them. In that specific case, those people happened to be the Avengers because of a pressing need to deal with them.

But while it was about curtailing the Avengers specifically (which was easier to write in the first place because the Avengers were - at the time - the only people it could apply to: nobody knew about Ant-Man or the sorcerers, Asgard is a foreign power (though I wouldn't be surprised if drawing up a treaty or something was on the table, even if it never becomes a plot point), and basically everyone else such a concept could apply to was already in jail), it's not reasonable to assume that as the situation changed, the nations of the world would stick to strictly and solely focusing on controlling an increasingly small-in-comparison group of gifted individuals, rather than spreading out further legislation on an evolving situation.

The Accords turning into a registration act probably is a step to far, I'd agree, but I would see it either amended or in it's wake spawning more legislation that affected gifted people - particularly those who try to act autonomous of society - in general.

That said, while the shows depict and evolving situation, the films don't, and they don't particularly acknowledge the shows anyhow - Spider-Man is currently the only character in a grey area in the films, being a publicly known superhero that acts as a vigilante outside of police authority in a world where championing group of that kind was leashed by the UN itself. I'd expect that to be an explicit bit of criticism the Bugle slings at him in the future... if they ever show up.

edited 12th Jul '17 6:01:40 PM by KnownUnknown

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#72674: Jul 12th 2017 at 6:11:09 PM

The accords didn't need to exist. There's already laws in place that cover all of the Avengers. The one exception would be Vision, who as a genuine artificial intelligence should prompt a lot more response legally than he actually does.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#72675: Jul 12th 2017 at 7:40:06 PM

The idea behind the Accords was curtailing powerful, "gifted" people who had the potential and will to break laws to exert their own authority or flaunt existing authority without adequate systems in place to control them. In that specific case, those people happened to be the Avengers because of a pressing need to deal with them.

No, the idea behind the Accords was curtailing a group of people who were actively breaking laws to exert their own authority or flaunt existing authority without adequate systems in place to control them. Some of whom were powerful and gifted, and others who were just skilled mundanes. It was never about "What Thor Could Do" and always about "What Thor Has, In Fact, Done".

This is not Suicide Squad. The people behind this were not acting on "What If?" hypotheticals. The Accords were a direct response to the actions taken by the Avengers, specifically. At no point in Civil War does anyone so much as wax poetic about superhuman potential for harm; it is at every point about the Avengers needing to be put in check.

edited 12th Jul '17 7:40:47 PM by TobiasDrake

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