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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72201: Jun 29th 2017 at 4:59:12 PM

. If you actually check how fast he's going, it rarely exceeds highway speeds.
I checked those links and they are completely ridiculous. They are measuring pixels. Battleboards like that will twist all sorts of facts to get the outcome they want. The fact is — you can't measure how fast Pietro is going, because he travels at different speeds and his "speed" is basically the speed of plot.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
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#72202: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:09:59 PM

Nice hyperbole, but you haven't actually explained why just measuring his speed is 'wrong' besides saying "they could have written the movie differently if they wanted to so that he's faster." Well no shit, they also could have given him Superman's powers if they wanted to. But they didn't, and they didn't depict him going very fast either.

edited 29th Jun '17 5:10:13 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#72203: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:14:58 PM

I mean, at the very least he was running fast enough to break apart Ultron's replicated bodies in one punch each.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#72204: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:15:39 PM

I'm pretty sure Paul Blart could have beaten one of those robot bodies.

My various fanfics.
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
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#72205: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:16:18 PM

[up]He probably could, not even joking. Which is pretty sad because on paper their capabilities are fairly impressive like superhuman strength, flight, built-in blasters, and pistol-proof plating on their chests. They're just really dumb and die really easily.

[up][up]Hawkeye could break them by kicking them, or smacking them with his bow, or sticking an arrow through their heads. Cap also completely bisected one with a quick toss of his shield (note that his usual shield tosses fail to bisect humans and can just barely manage to embed the shield into the side of a van). They're as durable as cardboard wrapped in tinfoil.

edited 29th Jun '17 5:23:50 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#72206: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:18:54 PM

Never forget a Ultron drone was brought down by a guy with a pen.

Okay so it was technically an Iron Man armor vs the guy who built it, but still. Normal guy. Pen.

edited 29th Jun '17 5:19:35 PM by Tuckerscreator

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#72207: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:23:58 PM

Every single Ultron Armor was fucking worthless. Even the Invincible Vibranium Body was trash. Quick, somebody change the subject before I go frothing with rage from how ineffective Ultron is as a threat.

My various fanfics.
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
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#72208: Jun 29th 2017 at 5:26:46 PM

Vulture looks like he'll be a better villain than QuipBot 9000. Ego was good so it looks like the MCU might be getting better with its villains.

edited 29th Jun '17 5:27:24 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#72209: Jun 29th 2017 at 6:47:38 PM

Looking at the reviews most of the praise seems to be going for the school scenes and the character interactions, while the actual superheroics are... solid. Sounds kinda like the Power Rangers reboot in a way.

Makes sense, Marvel's already settled into a comfortable complacency with its action for most films so now it has to fall to the stuff that's not superheroics to help it differentiate itself. I know that at least for myself it's the talky bits that take place in between the action that affect my opinion of these movies nowadays.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#72210: Jun 29th 2017 at 7:30:18 PM

Tony Stark's beard is good, but best beard in the MCU goes to Bobby Fish.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72211: Jun 29th 2017 at 8:56:09 PM

Nice hyperbole, but you haven't actually explained why just measuring his speed is 'wrong' besides saying "they could have written the movie differently if they wanted to so that he's faster."
Measuring his speed is wrong because you can't measure his speed. Trying to time his speed is ridiculous considering he is a fictional character and his speed is the speed of the special effects. You aren't measuring his speed, then, you are measuring what the special effects look like. Which, again, isn't real.

Pietro's speed is the speed of plot. He's fast enough to unload a clip of bullets, move people away from a speeding train, and slow his perceptions down to watch a bullet in slow motion, but not fast enough to avoid Whedon's death by quip.

He probably could, not even joking.
No, no he couldn't.

Hawkeye could break them by kicking them, or smacking them with his bow, or sticking an arrow through their heads
He never broke any by "kicking" them. He broke them when he shot them with his highly advanced arrows and that's all.

Cap also completely bisected one with a quick toss of his shield (note that his usual shield tosses fail to bisect humans and can just barely manage to embed the shield into the side of a van).
Cap's shield "fails to bisect humans" because Cap doesn't kill humans with his shield. That would be gross. He could if he wanted to, but he doesn't.

Every single Ultron Armor was fucking worthless.
Because they were facing the Avengers. How many actual villains can go toe to toe with the Avengers and not look like chumps? What, it's Doom and who else?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#72212: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:00:22 PM

No, all the cinematic Dooms would probably look like chumps too.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#72213: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:07:15 PM

Hey, wait a second. So is Bobby Fish a reference to Bobby Fischer and Mr Fish?

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
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#72214: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:08:43 PM

Measuring his speed is wrong because you can't measure his speed. Trying to time his speed is ridiculous considering he is a fictional character and his speed is the speed of the special effects.
A fictional character is what we see on screen, and what's on screen can be easily measured. Please stop being dumb/argumentative for the sake of it.
No, no he couldn't.
Yes, yes he could. You or I could take one with a small knife.
He never broke any by "kicking" them.
Yes he did, during the final battle rotating shot. Would you like me to pull up a screen cap?
He broke them when he shot them
And when he stabbed them. With regular arrows.
highly advanced arrows
Holy shit man, thanks for that. I haven't laughed like that in quite a while.[lol]
Cap's shield "fails to bisect humans" because Cap doesn't kill humans with his shield.
He kills humans all the time. And his shield still fails to penetrate thin metal objects like the doors of vans.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#72215: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:12:36 PM

Okay, this is starting to feel unnecessarily heated. Maybe take a short breather?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#72216: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:20:14 PM

I finished re-watching Luke Cage today. "What are you, a pimp stormtrooper?" is still my favorite line in the MCU.

Gonna re-watch Iron Fist soon, and then I'll be all prepped and ready for Defenders.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72217: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:25:19 PM

A fictional character is what we see on screen, and what's on screen can be easily measured.
No, it can't. For instance, did you know that Scully is actually shorter than Mulder but stood on a box so they would seem the same height? Special effects means that everything on screen is a lie, so you can't measure it accurately.

Yes, yes he could. You or I could take one with a small knife.
No, you and I couldn't. You're just being willfully obtuse now.

Yes he did, during the final battle rotating shot. Would you like me to pull up a screen cap?
Did he kick them after he shot or stabbed them with his highly advanced arrows? Because I think your argument goes down the drain after that.

And when he stabbed them. With regular arrows.
Hawkeye doesn't have regular arrows, all of his arrows are specialized.

He kills humans all the time.
Not with his fucking shield, which is what I wrote. He doesn't kill people with his shield, because that would be fucking gross. And no, it doesn't "fail to penetrate thin metal objects." The shield is tossed with the force behind it — so if he uses enough force, it bounces off or it penetrates metal. Hell, the shield is making out of FUCKING VIBRANIUM. It's strong enough to survive Thor's hammer and yet you think that the shield shouldn't break apart an Ultron body. That's just silly.

edited 29th Jun '17 9:28:11 PM by alliterator

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#72218: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:29:52 PM

I think it makes more sense that Cap is deliberately tossing the shield slower when aimed at humans so as to not kill them. Him tossing it at the same speed as at an Ultron bot should result in at least a shattered rib cage. Or this might just be Strong Flesh, Weak Steel.

MapleSamurai Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#72220: Jun 29th 2017 at 9:38:17 PM

Looking at the reviews most of the praise seems to be going for the school scenes and the character interactions, while the actual superheroics are... solid. Sounds kinda like the Power Rangers reboot in a way.

So they turned Shocker into a giant blob?

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
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#72221: Jun 29th 2017 at 10:16:17 PM

No, it can't. For instance, did you know that Scully is actually shorter than Mulder but stood on a box so they would seem the same height?
Quite the opposite. Special effects means that everything viewed on the screen is the truth of what happened in universe. Which is the reason they're there. I think you're being willfully obtuse here.
No, you and I couldn't
Well, maybe not you (I don't know you), but definitely the average person. They can be stabbed through very easily and are slower than regular human martial artists.
Did he kick them after he shot or stabbed them
Nope. After he smacked one with his bow.

highly advanced arrows
I'm not sure you grasp how self-evidently hilarious this statement is.
Hawkeye doesn't have regular arrows,
Yes he does. He uses one to stab an Ultron drone. You can see it's just a regular arrowhead.
Not with his fucking shield, which is what I wrote.
I'm not sure what you think happens when a superhuman throws a 15-pound chunk of metal at someone's head at 20 m/s, dropping them instantly into incapacitation with a loud bump. Those people are most likely dead.
The shield is tossed with the force behind it — so if he uses enough force, it bounces off or it penetrates metal. Hell, the shield is making out of FUCKING VIBRANIUM. It's strong enough to survive Thor's hammer and yet you think that the shield shouldn't break apart an Ultron body.
I don't think you know how physics work. How hard the object is past a certain point is functionally irrelevant to how well it penetrates things. What matters is the sharpness and the velocity. That doesn't really change from scene to scene.

For a simple example, diamond is much harder than steel, yet throwing a chunk of diamond at body armor like a baseball at about 30 m/s will do jack while a well-shaped rifle round of much lower mass with a steel core can go through that same armor.

Also not sure what you're getting so worked up about. It's not that big of a deal.

I think it makes more sense that Cap is deliberately tossing the shield slower when aimed at humans so as to not kill them.
Problem: you can actually measure the shield's velocity and see that it's being tossed at about the same velocity every time.

edited 29th Jun '17 10:23:56 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#72222: Jun 29th 2017 at 10:32:55 PM

I'm not sure what you think happens when a superhuman throws a 15-pound chunk of metal at someone's head at 20 m/s, dropping them instantly into incapacitation with a loud bump. Those people are most likely dead.

It's just Tap on the Head like a bunch of movies. We see Cap in TWS smack the crud out of a bunch of guys during the elevator fight and they show up later just a little bruised. I don't see where all this realism insistence comes from.

edited 29th Jun '17 10:33:30 PM by Tuckerscreator

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
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#72223: Jun 29th 2017 at 10:36:37 PM

I don't know why you'd assume they deviate from realism here when nothing shows as much. If people are hit by impacts that would kill them in reality, and they don't get up afterwards, and Cap is killing other people in the same scene, it's pretty safe to assume they're dead. Unlike everyone he hits with his shield or kicks, those guys in the elevator weren't necessarily hit with lethal amounts of blunt force. For an example of that you'd want to see that guy at the beginning of TWS who Cap kicks hard enough to send flying 20 feet and into a metal tank (love that scene).

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72225: Jun 29th 2017 at 10:37:08 PM

Special effects means that everything viewed on the screen is the truth of what happened in universe.
??? None of that makes any sense. Special effects are showing things that can never happen in real life, therefore there is no way to explain them with making shit up.

Well, maybe not you (I don't know you), but definitely the average person. They can be stabbed through very easily and are slower than regular human martial artists.
None of the Avengers are "regular human martial artists."

Nope. After he smacked one with his bow.
Did he actually destroy it or did he just push off a cliff? Because I have a feeling if I actually see the scene again, it won't show him kicking it to death, but rather, you know, simply kicking it somewhere else. Which is entirely different from what you are talking about.

I'm not sure you grasp how self-evidently hilarious this statement is.
All of his arrows are specially made and modified with special arrowheads. This is all explained in, you know, the first film where we actually see him choose which arrowhead to use.

Yes he does. He uses one to stab an Ultron drone. You can see it's just a regular arrowhead.
And you know it's a regular arrowhead because...what?

I don't think you know how physics work.
As Spider-Man rightfully pointed out, his shield doesn't obey the laws of physics. None of the superpowers in the MCU obey the laws of physics.

Problem: you can actually measure the shield's velocity and see that it's being tossed at about the same velocity every time.
Solution: no, you fucking can't.

I don't know why you'd assume they deviate from realism here when nothing shows as much.
Everything in the movies deviates from realism. The fact that you can't seem to comprehend that is amazing.

edited 29th Jun '17 10:39:18 PM by alliterator


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