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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#72026: Jun 25th 2017 at 12:56:54 PM

One of the big aspects of the Hulk is that the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets.
That's never been a thing in the character's ten years of appearances in the MCU.

edited 25th Jun '17 12:57:37 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#72027: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:06:18 PM

I suspect Hawkeye's conclusion will be to just retire altogether for good, go home and take care of his kids. At most he'll probably lose a limb. I don't expect him to die. He might have a mild future grooming Kate Bishop beforehand though.

edited 25th Jun '17 1:06:51 PM by AlleyOop

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#72029: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:14:07 PM

When? The only maybe example I can remember is at the tail end of his fight with Abomination, and it's debatable if that was the case at all or if it was just a standard Heroic Second Wind as can happen to anyone. And even if that was this attribute in action, it clearly shows that his strength doesn't fluctuate much if it does at all since he was basically at the maddest it was possible for him to be (Betty threatened and Abomination taunting and beating him into near-unconsciousness) and he still needed to outsmart Abomination (who was roughly his equal beforehand) to beat him.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72030: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:14:32 PM

That's never been a thing in the character's ten years of appearances in the MCU.
First of all, he's only appeared in three films (Incredible Hulk, Avengers, and Age of Ultron). And while his strength hasn't been spelled out, you can support the whole angrier=stronger thing with scenes from both Incredible Hulk and Avengers.

[up] The Abomination is supposed to be just as strong as the Hulk, yet the Hulk manages to choke him out, making the Hulk stronger.

edited 25th Jun '17 1:16:38 PM by alliterator

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#72031: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:28:00 PM

The actual Infinity Gauntlet book had Thanos kill over half the universe. And then they were brought back and every bit of damage he did was undone and then Thanos became a farmer.

I don't think following that precedent is going to make people stop crying about the MCU lacking impact.

I'm not saying they follow. I think what they should do is kill off several of the heroes without bringing them back. The only major heroes that have died in the films and stayed dead are Quicksilver and Agent Carter and the latter died of old age. Killing off several of the Avengers and/or Guardians would be a genuine shakeup. It's not like the comics where people die every few years and then come back.

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#72032: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:34:30 PM

First of all, he's only appeared in three films (Incredible Hulk, Avengers, and Age of Ultron). And while his strength hasn't been spelled out, you can support the whole angrier=stronger thing with scenes from both Incredible Hulk and Avengers.
Not really, no,
The Abomination is supposed to be just as strong as the Hulk, yet the Hulk manages to choke him out, making the Hulk stronger.
He tripped him by breaking the ground under him, and then choked him with a chain. That doesn't require superior strength, just some quick thinking and leverage. Which the Hulk had.

edited 25th Jun '17 1:38:17 PM by MonsieurThenardier

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#72033: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:48:31 PM

I do agree the "anger makes Hulk stronger is basically not a thing in the movie. They went out of their way to distance themselves from it by making Bruce's trigger be his heartbeat rather than the emotion of anger.

Even in the comics, it's mostly a hack-n-eyed excuse for the writers to justify Hulk's fluctuating strength.

edited 25th Jun '17 1:49:04 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72034: Jun 25th 2017 at 1:55:48 PM

I do agree the "anger makes Hulk stronger is basically not a thing in the movie. They went out of their way to distance themselves from it by making Bruce's trigger be his heartbeat rather than the emotion of anger.
Um, no, it was still emotions, signified by his heartbeat. And anger still triggers, but he can control his anger better, even though he is "always angry."

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#72035: Jun 25th 2017 at 2:10:47 PM

Anger is the primary cause because generally, anger and nervousness speeds your heartbeat, but it's clearly just the heartbeat spike now, otherwise sensual excitement (like the two scenes in which Banner explicitly states he can't have sex without Hulking out) would not be a problem for him. Jumping off a helicopter also does not entail anger, rather it entails fear (which also spikes heartbeats), and that's how he turns in The Incredible Hulk.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72036: Jun 25th 2017 at 2:23:53 PM

As I said, it's emotions. His heartbeat indicates his emotions, rather than vice versa. If it wasn't his emotions, he would de-Hulk every time his heartbeat slowed or he wouldn't turn into the Hulk at all if his heartbeat was calm — but according to The Avengers, he can actually control when he turns into the Hulk, because "I'm always angry."

(Also, he doesn't actually turn into the Hulk when he gets sexually aroused, his watch just beeped at him. He just didn't want to risk it.)

MonsieurThenardier Searching from Murika Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Searching
#72037: Jun 25th 2017 at 2:25:27 PM

I do agree the "anger makes Hulk stronger is basically not a thing in the movie. They went out of their way to distance themselves from it by making Bruce's trigger be his heartbeat rather than the emotion of anger. Even in the comics, it's mostly a hack-n-eyed excuse for the writers to justify Hulk's fluctuating strength.
Pretty much, yeah.

"It is very easy to be kind; the difficulty lies in being just."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#72039: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:09:17 PM

Based on the first comment on that article, I'd very much love it if the twist was that the character we thought was Tony Stark the whole time was actually Mephisto.

wild mass guessPeter from the Amazing verse sold his franchise sold his existence to bring Gwen Stacy back to life, see...wild mass guess

edited 25th Jun '17 11:09:39 PM by KnownUnknown

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#72040: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:18:13 PM

I don't really follow the logic about the Miles thing.

edited 25th Jun '17 11:18:59 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#72041: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:20:38 PM

The heartbeat thing got kind of changed in The Avengers where it is suddenly the anger again (which makes more sense anyway).

Anyway, I kind of expect them to do the Death of Captain America but switched, with Tony being the one who dies in the end...or they do it twice. They could first kill Cap and then Strange turns up and plays around with time, but the second time around it is Tony who dies instead.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72042: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:21:11 PM

[up][up]It's very simple:

Abraham Attah is listed as playing a character named "Abe." Wikipedia linked this character as "Abraham Brown" (a character who became the superhero Black Tiger) who was the brother of Hobie Brown, the Prowler. The movie doesn't feature Hobie, but does feature another version of the Prowler, Aaron Davis. And Aaron Davis also has a brother, Jefferson, who has a son named Miles Morales.

So either Abraham Attah is playing some random character that never went to Midtown High in the first place...or he is actually playing Miles Morales and they are hiding it with a sly reference.

edited 25th Jun '17 11:21:23 PM by alliterator

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#72043: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:22:44 PM

Yeah you lose me at the Abe = Abraham Brown thing. Wikipedia isn't reliable, was it ever stated anywhere official that's who it is?

This song needs more love.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#72044: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:27:36 PM

Nope. None of the students are listed with their last names, but Wikipedia linked them to characters anyway (like Sally = Sally Avril, Cindy = Cindy Moon, and so on). To be fair, there aren't a lot of characters that go by "Abe" in the comics. It was either Abe Brown or Abe Beame, the former Mayor of New York.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#72045: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:27:44 PM

If I understand it right, the theory is that Wikipedia lists the character as an obscure hero whose brother happens to be a version of The Prowler that isn't in this movie, and that thus the character is actually going to be a third character entirely who has a different familial connection with a different version of the Prowler... yadda yadda yadda Miles Morales.

Yeah, it's a huge conclusion jump that assumes there's an egregiously complicated reference going on (and this from a guy who likes oblique references) - same as a lot of these "Marvel is hiding things" theories. Though there's at least more to this than the trash article that started the "Melissa is Mary Jane" rumor.

Albeit, it's a jump that I would nevertheless like to see (though I'd prefer if Miles were someone noticeably younger than Pete, like a child character who has a connection to and is inspired by Peter's actions).

edited 25th Jun '17 11:38:15 PM by KnownUnknown

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#72046: Jun 26th 2017 at 2:18:26 AM

Someone mentioned something about some of the Avengers dying in IW. My question is... why?

If I were writing the movie, I'd kill a bunch of people. And not just kill them, Man-of-Steel-style, but downright show on screen how people are dying by the thousands and how the Avengers are fuckin' useless and unable to stop any of it.

Maybe a woman dies in Caps arms. Tony tries to save a man and the man blows the fuck up. People are buried beneath buildings. Shit explodes. A bus full of kids gets blown to smithereens. Stuff like that. I know there's limitations, but hey, I'm pretty sure you could show some mild genocide to make sense of how big a threat Thanos is. I'm gonna be dissapointed if there's no human casualties, is what I'm saying. That's one of the things that made me dislike Age Of Ultron; it never showed any death other than Quicksilver's.

Remember that Thanos is not a threat to the Avengers, but to life itself. By only killing an Avenger you minimize the scale of the threat.

Something along the lines of the Moon in Majora's Mask, for example. A looming threat that is going to kill every single being on this shitty planet, without discrimination, and making no difference. Avenger, Wizard, Defender, random pedestrian and ugly dogs, everyone's going to die, yo.

edited 26th Jun '17 2:22:28 AM by ExplosiveLion

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#72047: Jun 26th 2017 at 2:53:11 AM

Killing some of the Avengers would just as easily show Thanos as a threat to life itself as him killing nameless civilians the audience has no attachment to.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#72048: Jun 26th 2017 at 3:21:57 AM

TIL The Avengers was PG-13 while Avatar was 11+. So I guess the death count has no influence here.

Nebula & Tony are the most likely to bite it. I don't think Drax is threatened, especially since he was the one with the most chemistry with the antenna girl in 2, so they probably want to keep him around to build around it in 3.

Bucky is a possible death too.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#72049: Jun 26th 2017 at 3:42:00 AM

Bucky? Never!!!! There are so many stories you can tell with the character plus the actor has a multiple movie deal.

If you go at this backwards at characters who will most likely NOT die, Bucky is definitely on the list, along with the Hulk. Also all Got G except maybe Nebula, all characters which have been just introduced (Doctor Strange, Ant-man, Black Panther aso). I also think that Falcon, Wanda and Black Widow are less likely to die due to the diversity quotient.

Which basically leaves a bunch of secondary characters, Steve, Tony and Thor as well as Vision, who happens to have a giant target on his head. And I somehow doubt that Thor will die, because he is the kind of character you can easily replace with another actor down the line.

edited 26th Jun '17 3:57:31 AM by Swanpride


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