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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71926: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:27:35 PM

Does that mean Dr. Doom has similar hesitations?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71927: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:31:36 PM

Victor: "Do harm to all except DOOM"

Reed: "What? That's not how it goes!"

Victor: "That's how I heard it."

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71928: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:33:16 PM

The hypocritic oath.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71929: Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:33:44 PM

I think we have our next hit Defective Detective medical procedural.

We know how the MCU likes to vary itself up with the genres it tries.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71930: Jun 23rd 2017 at 4:15:23 PM

Strange isn't reluctant, he's remorseful. That's an important distinction.

Like, when push comes to shove and his life is on the line, he kills the f*ck out of that guy. He doesn't stop halfway and be like, "Never mind, I refuse to take a life, go ahead and kick my ass." He does what it takes to win the fight, even if it means lethal consequences incur as a result.

It's only after that he's like, "Holy shit, I had to kill a man because of you people! I do not want to be doing this!"

It's not so different from how Banner reacts. Banner hates that he's had to kill a bunch of people in the course of working with the Avengers. Hates it. It's a motivating factor in his ultimate decision to leave. But in the heat of the moment, he's willing to do it.

Neither character has some grand code against killing. They just don't like doing it. Their A-Plan to not kill people is simply to avoid being put into situations where it becomes necessary in the first place.

edited 23rd Jun '17 4:17:59 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#71931: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:26:34 PM

Within The Winter Soldier, Steve only kills three people, during the climax aboard one of the Helicarriers. It mostly comes about from him not using a gun at any point in the movie. Haven't counted for Civil War, though. At least one in the case of the guy whose mask he yanked off.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:27:04 PM by Tuckerscreator

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#71932: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:31:18 PM

"The dude was about to murder his daughter. I cannot see any situation where Ant-Man would feel conflicted about that. " Sure but consider he is a their a best what he did is kind disturbing, actually the whole thing in the quantum realm shoukd disturb the fuck of him, it feel very nightmarish

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#71933: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:38:41 PM

He says that he doesn't really remember that much of it.

Which does sound like the trope you get where your mind makes you forget to protect itself.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#71934: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:01:48 PM

And Strange has a very specific reason - The Hippocratic Oath. Killing runs counter to his former life as a doctor.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#71935: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:06:48 PM

Heh, Brian K Vaughan actually made that a plot point in his "The Oath" Dr. Strange story.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71936: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:13:18 PM

Of note, the Hippocratic Oath does not forbid killing. It forbids the causing of harm. There is no qualifier in the oath distinguishing between lethal and nonlethal harm.

This gets right back into the superhero paradox wherein violence is considered a totally acceptable and even fun method of conflict resolution as long as nobody actually dies as a consequence of it.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:13:59 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#71937: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:22:46 PM

[up][up][up][up]actually that is my take, that scott just kinda shut down to protect him for what he saw.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71938: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:34:21 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]I still don't really see it. Plenty of people who aren't hardened killers would kill someone who was directly threatening their child. And it's not like it was an idle threat. Cross had more than enough power to do so and directly stated he was about to murder a small, helpless child to teach her daddy a lesson. Dude was asking for it.

We have whole tropes for Papa Wolf and Mama Bear for a reason.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:35:03 PM by comicwriter

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71939: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:48:25 PM

Randomly reminded of how much I want to see Cassie grow into being Stature. Even if, given the age of the actress, it might take a while.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71940: Jun 23rd 2017 at 7:18:32 PM

[up][up]Hell, we even see the lazers powering up. The only reason Cassie and Paxton are still alive is because Scott punched through a wire just in time to make the suit's aim spasm out.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#71941: Jun 23rd 2017 at 7:40:17 PM

I know, just thinking that scott should be a little bit shock of the whole deal, as the fact it sent itself into another dimension.

I wonder if Scott is ever going to remenber the whole quantum realm thing.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#71942: Jun 23rd 2017 at 8:17:43 PM

I mean, even if Strange doesn't kill people, he still hurts them which is against the Hippocratic Oath.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71943: Jun 23rd 2017 at 8:26:57 PM

And subjects them to a painful Fate Worse than Death!

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71944: Jun 23rd 2017 at 8:31:21 PM

Nothing in the oath about not fucking someone up with magic energy whips.

edited 23rd Jun '17 8:31:31 PM by comicwriter

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71945: Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:02:18 PM

Yes, actually, there is. The part forbidding the doing of harm is a catch-all for all the myriad ways you might consider f*cking someone up.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#71946: Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:03:45 PM

Doesn't being a surgeon inherently violate Do No Harm, since you have to cut into the person first before you can operate?

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71947: Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:12:43 PM

Something something ends justify the means.

edited 23rd Jun '17 10:13:45 PM by Unsung

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#71948: Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:27:30 PM

I would presume it's okay as long as they're better off than they would have been if you hadn't done anything at all.

Also, you have to sew them back up.

edited 23rd Jun '17 10:28:00 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71949: Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:37:19 PM

Doesn't being a surgeon inherently violate Do No Harm, since you have to cut into the person first before you can operate?
Actually, "Do No Harm" is not a part of the Hippocratic Oath. This is the version a lot of medical schools use:
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:...

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can but I will always look for a path to a cure for all diseases.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

"Do no harm" actually comes from the Latin term primum non nocere, "first, do no harm." But that phrase never appears in the Hippocratic Oath, only "to abstain from doing harm." In any case, "harm" can be translated into many things, so cutting someone open in order to fix them would not be doing harm.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#71950: Jun 24th 2017 at 1:19:31 AM

http://screenrant.com/spider-man-homecoming-early-reactions-critics/

http://collider.com/spider-man-homecoming-reviews/

http://uproxx.com/hitfix/spider-man-homecoming-screening-reactions-roundup/

Early impressions are out for Spider-Man Homecoming. Generally positive if not effusive. Looks like it's better received than either TASM or Spider-Man 3 but not as good as the first two Raimi films.


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