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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#71826: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:48:35 PM

She should have used her cyborg arm. She would have had a tiny bit more cha-baaaahahahaha.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71827: Jun 19th 2017 at 6:08:57 AM

See, here's the thing about that Venn Diagram: Homecoming isn't a film that can easily be divorced from the MCU and gone, "Hey, it's not necessarily part of the MCU! It could totally be in a separate universe of only Spider-characters exactly as it is!"

There is a huge, glaring problem with that and, as is too often the case, his name is Tony Stark. While he probably does not feature as heavily as the ads may indicate - I'm sure what we've seen in the trailers comprises all of his scenes - his involvement is still no minor thing. This is not an end-credits stinger where he just pops by to remind us all that Spidey's in the MCU.

He's Spidey's mentor. Spidey's motivations are heavily influenced by the desire to be an Avenger. Even his suit in the film is Stark tech.

Trying to create a separate universe and go, "Everything happened exactly the same, down to the last detail, but Iron Man and the Avengers aren't a thing," makes no sense in a story this heavily integrated in the MCU's continuity.

edited 19th Jun '17 6:10:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#71828: Jun 19th 2017 at 6:23:12 AM

You can't just have one Spider-Man movie in the MCU and be done with it! People will want more, and want to see Spider-Man interact with the Avengers, considering he is one. And god help you if you divorce him from his iconic rogues gallery

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71829: Jun 19th 2017 at 6:45:25 AM

They're not going to stop at one. Not if it's successful.

SMH would still be part of the MCU, in the Venn diagram. It's the other two movies that would be off on their own. Basically SMH is itself the branching point for two timelines, and the Sony Spider-verse would be largely unable to acknowledge any of the MCU stuff. It's a Continuity Snarl waiting to happen and it would be better if Sony just let Marvel set their marching orders since Sony clearly can't get a grip on this.

I think the trouble people are having is one that comic book fans have long since gotten over: it doesn't fully make sense. It's contradictory. You're not missing something that reconciles the two; instead, it's best thought of as two separate timelines, if you're going to think of it at all. Which I wouldn't recommend.

edited 19th Jun '17 7:14:07 AM by Unsung

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#71830: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:11:19 AM

So...it's Hypertime, then?

Oh God! Natural light!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71831: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:13:35 AM

You can't just have one Spider-Man movie in the MCU and be done with it! People will want more, and want to see Spider-Man interact with the Avengers, considering he is one. And god help you if you divorce him from his iconic rogues gallery

They already announced a Homecoming sequel. As for the rogue's gallery, I'm not sure what you're asking with that. Sony still has final say on the characters. Marvel can't just take his villains and use them without Spider-Man.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#71832: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:14:37 AM

I meant the other way- Sony using Spider-Man villains without Spider-Man

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71833: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:14:49 AM

[up][up][up] Yep.

edited 19th Jun '17 7:14:59 AM by Unsung

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71834: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:22:14 AM

[up][up]From the sounds of the entire quote that started this discussion, that sounds like what they are trying to avoid by tying it to Homecoming.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#71835: Jun 19th 2017 at 12:55:08 PM

What this tells me is that Sony is really the ones that are in control in this relationship.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71836: Jun 19th 2017 at 12:58:58 PM

They have the rights to Spider-Man. They do have that power. The plug is theirs to pull.

Of course, they seemingly can't make a decent movie to save their lives, so this is somewhat like owning a room full of power outlets while not having any actual appliances to plug in.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71837: Jun 19th 2017 at 1:44:52 PM

The only control Sony has is to decide how many Spider-man movies will be made. And considering that Spider-man had diminishing returns.....

I repeat, if they just make movies and claim that they are part of the MCU without green light by marvel, the Disney lawyers will take action.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71838: Jun 19th 2017 at 1:50:40 PM

It says right in the announcement Sony retains final say on creative decisions for the movies and how Spider-Man is used, so their control definitely goes beyond just deciding how many Spider-Man movies are made.

edited 19th Jun '17 1:52:57 PM by comicwriter

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#71839: Jun 19th 2017 at 4:17:18 PM

Technically, Sony's Spider-Verse can be a universe where Iron Man and the Avengers exist; they justcan't be shown or referenced by name.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71841: Jun 19th 2017 at 4:32:37 PM

[up][up]Kind of like the shows.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#71842: Jun 19th 2017 at 4:38:22 PM

Noooo the shows can reference them.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71843: Jun 19th 2017 at 4:39:26 PM

Unless it's on Netflix, in which case they just say stuff like "The flag waver" or "The big guy." Hey maybe they could do that in the Sony movies.tongue

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71844: Jun 19th 2017 at 4:39:52 PM

[up][up][up][up] Not anymore...the moment Sony advertised with the notion, it was infringing on a Marvel property. And having an official interview announcing it being part of the MCU, extended or not, counts. So either there is a prior agreement or Feige had some serious words with Amy Pascal after the interview.

edited 19th Jun '17 4:40:41 PM by Swanpride

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71845: Jun 19th 2017 at 6:06:55 PM

Technically, Sony's Spider-Verse can be a universe where Iron Man and the Avengers exist; they justcan't be shown or referenced by name.

I'm betting that's only the case if their deals specifically allow for it. Gone are the days where a Spider-Man movie can do something like indirectly acknowledge the existence of Dr. Strange as a gag, or do a kind of reference like how Superman The Animated Series talked about Batman long before the character showed up without specifically mentioning him ("that nut in Gotham City...").

Everyone is very particular about where their characters end up, and these spinoffs are probably going to be in an even more delicate situation because the MCU will have their eyes trained on them. Sony can't go "Iron Man and co exist in this universe, even if we don't say so" unless they get permission.

edited 19th Jun '17 6:09:42 PM by KnownUnknown

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71846: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:30:11 PM

[up][up][up]Just Jessica Jones does that for some reason.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71847: Jun 19th 2017 at 7:39:59 PM

Jessica does that because she can't be unironically enthusiastic about anything, and it's hard to honestly find fault with the way a bunch of supermen saved your city from aliens a few years ago. She can't be as cynical as she'd normally like, but she can try.

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#71848: Jun 19th 2017 at 10:37:12 PM

Someone already beat me to it, but I'll say it again: The moment Sony claims their movies are set in the same continuity as Spider-Man: Homecoming, they are crossing the line between unrelated spin-off and canon spin-off. They can't have it both ways because they ain't flying solo anymore; they would be messing with property that it's not theirs to mess with. If they set those movies within the continuity of the Spidey movie, they are setting them in the continuity of the MCU too.

As I've said, that's probably the reason they went from "these movies are not going to be canon to the MCU, total spin-offs with no relation to the Holland!Spidey" to "what? no, they're totally canon, like, seriously". They wanted to make them unrelated, and Marvel/Feige pulled the plug on that shit.

Say what you want, but I find it hard to believe that Marvel/Disney would jeopardize the reputation of their most succesful franchise by surrendering all creative control to the well-known fuck-ups at Sony.

edited 19th Jun '17 10:38:19 PM by ExplosiveLion

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71849: Jun 20th 2017 at 6:04:51 AM

I mean, in Sony's defense, they have made some decent Spider-Man films. And, like, whether you think their worst is Spider-Man 3 or Amazing 2, both movies are still miles ahead in quality than movies like X-Men Origins: Wolverine or Fant4stic.

Of course, they've never made a Deadpool or Logan either, so both their highs and their lows are much more reserved than Fox's.

edited 20th Jun '17 6:05:31 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71850: Jun 20th 2017 at 6:07:54 AM

I personally think Spider-Man 2 is one of the finest superhero movies ever made. I'd definitely rank it above Deadpool though perhaps maybe not quite as high as Logan.

A Homecoming poster that's actually good.


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