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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71777: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:00:53 AM

Good. That's the smart play. The MCU is a license to print money and Sony just gained the rights to borrow that money printer. It would be dumb of them not to capitalize on it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Luigisan98 A wandering user from Venezuelan Muscat Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
A wandering user
#71778: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:07:07 AM

[up][up] Didn't See That Coming indeed. :P

The only good fanboy, is a redeemed fanboy.
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#71779: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:19:55 AM

So-uh... is Sony-Man canon with the MCU?

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TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#71780: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:20:26 AM

I'm glad that they decided to have the Spiderman spinoff movies be part of the MCU. It never made sense to try to keep them separate.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#71781: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:21:37 AM

I kind of get the feeling that nothing was actually decided on Marvel's end and this was entirely Sony's decision.

edited 18th Jun '17 10:21:45 AM by LordVatek

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comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71783: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:32:27 AM

I might be projecting, but somehow Feige's face seems to say "wtf" and "we will have a looong talk after this".

I also doubt that Sony can put anything into the MCU without Marvel explicit permission.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71784: Jun 18th 2017 at 10:38:00 AM

I'm glad that they decided to have the Spiderman spinoff movies be part of the MCU. It never made sense to try to keep them separate.
The Spider-Man spinoffs are not part of the MCU, they are made completely by Sony. But since Sony is also making Spider-Man: Homecoming, they are part of that universe and since Marvel is helping making Spider-Man: Homecoming, it's a part of the MCU, but the spin-offs aren't, since they are only Sony. Get it?

Okay, imagine a venn diagram. And on one side is the MCU and on the other side is Sony's Marvel Universe. Right in the middle, where they meet, is Spider-Man: Homecoming.

edited 18th Jun '17 10:38:20 AM by alliterator

ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#71785: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:03:10 AM

[up]

Yeah, that makes absolutely no sense.

[up][up][up][up]

Highly unlikely. Most probably the guys at Marvel knew about Sony's plans to make the spinoffs and they went "Well, ok, if you're so decided to make those movies, fine, but you won't run any of that shit without us knowing about it and having some degree of control over it".

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71786: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:06:18 AM

What doesn't make sense about it? Seems pretty straightforward. I'm not sure if that's confirmed, much less convinced it's such a great idea IP management-wise, but the concept doesn't seem hard to follow.

edited 18th Jun '17 9:59:56 PM by Unsung

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71787: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:11:51 AM

Marvel likely wouldn't have any control over the spinoffs if Sony insisted they not be part of the deal with Homecoming. Now, Sony revealing that they changed their minds about those being in their shared universe after already starting development, on the other hand...

I was expecting this, but I figured that they would wait on revealing that hey planned on having the spinoffs be canon to Homecoming "all along" until after Homecoming came out. It feels to me like they were hedging their bets in regards to whether Homecoming would be a success.

edited 18th Jun '17 11:12:33 AM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71788: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:12:39 AM

Yeah, that makes absolutely no sense.
Marvel controls the MCU and Sony controls Spider-Man. They are collaborating for Spider-Man: Homecoming, which is why it is part of the MCU. They are not collaborating for the spin-offs, hence those not being part of the MCU. But they are still considered "spin-offs" of Spider-Man: Homecoming.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71789: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:17:02 AM

[up] Yeah, but this makes no sense whatsoever. The MCU is a brand, and if Sony starts to make movies connected to the MCU and make a mistake, they might damage the brand. The main reason why the negotiations for a Spider-man cooperation fell through the first time around was because there was disagreement over who should have creative control. There is NO WAY that Marvel would allow Sony to play around in their universe with no control whatsoever.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#71790: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:17:27 AM

[up][up] I guess that makes sense from a business/creative control/branding perspective but not really from a continuity one, at least not to me. So Homecoming is canon to the spinoffs, but the spinoffs aren't canon to the MCU even though Homecoming is clearly part of the MCU?

edited 18th Jun '17 11:17:42 AM by TommyFresh

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71791: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:25:57 AM

Kind of like how the movies are canon to the tv shows, but the shows aren't canon to the movies.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71792: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:30:08 AM

[up][up]My guess is they will effectively be even if it's nothing official. Sony after all still has final say on Spider-Man characters, so it's unlikely the MCU will be allowed to do anything that explicitly contradicts whatever Sony is doing (for instance, introducing their own versions of Venom or Silver Sable).

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71793: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:30:40 AM

The MCU is a brand, and if Sony starts to make movies connected to the MCU and make a mistake, they might damage the brand.
Sony literally can't make movies set in the MCU without Marvel approval. That's like making a Disney movie without actually being a part of Disney (no, wait, it's exactly that). Hence: none of the Spider-Man: Homecoming spin-offs are part of the MCU. The only reason Spider-Man: Homecoming is part of the MCU is because Sony made a deal with Marvel.

The main reason why the negotiations for a Spider-man cooperation fell through the first time around was because there was disagreement over who should have creative control.
Marvel has creative control over Spider-Man: Homecoming and anything Spider-Man does in the other MCU films. Sony has creative control over...whatever spin-offs they have planned for Spider-Man: Homecoming. Hence those movies not being a part of the MCU.

You might think this all sounds stupid for Sony. Why not ask Marvel/Disney/Kevin Feige to oversee the Spider-Man: Homecoming spin-offs and thus allow them to be part of the MCU? After all, Marvel has a much better track record of making good movies than Sony does. The answer to this question, however, is like the answer to a lot of questions: money. The original deal to share Spider-Man with the MCU came about because Sony was allowed all of the profits of solo Spider-Man movies, but Marvel was allowed all the profits of MCU movies where Spider-Man is just another character. But Spider-Man spin-offs fall in a more nebulous area — if Marvel is overseeing them, of course Marvel would want some of that profit, they don't want to do things to free (they are doing Spider-Man: Homecoming because it allows them to use Spider-Man, but the spin-offs are all characters not as popular as Spider-Man). And Sony doesn't really want to share profits with Marvel either, hence not asking them to oversee the spin-offs.

So we have two companies that basically want to make as much money as possible and know that by collaborating with this one character, they can do so. But they also want to make more money via spin-offs and don't want to share in those profits, so they try to connect to the collaborative movie without actually collaborating on the spin-offs. See? Easy as pi.

Kind of like how the movies are canon to the tv shows, but the shows aren't canon to the movies.
Except the shows are canon to the movies, they just haven't crossed over from show to movie. Kevin Feige has said, however, that that will happen...eventually.

edited 18th Jun '17 11:32:49 AM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71794: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:31:39 AM

[up][up][up] So far the movies haven't contradicted the shows. There was even a very definitive tie-in in Age of Ultron. There is no hint that they are not canon to each other, in fact the shows fit better into the MCU movies than the movies fit into each other.

edited 18th Jun '17 11:31:53 AM by Swanpride

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71795: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:38:20 AM

[up][up]Sure they will.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71796: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:38:58 AM

[up]"Eventually" is a polite way of saying "Don't count on it any time soon."

edited 18th Jun '17 11:39:17 AM by comicwriter

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71797: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:39:09 AM

Eh, as long as they don't contradict each other, they are still canon. Unlike with Sony, the Marvel TV shows are still made by, you know, Marvel.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71798: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:43:11 AM

They've all learned to keep out of each other's way. Which isn't really what was promised, in the beginning, but at least the finished products are generally of a fairly high quality.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71799: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:49:04 AM

[up]The Netflix shows thankfully found a way to reference a shared universe without making it seem really jarring when the movie guys don't show up.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71800: Jun 18th 2017 at 11:49:35 AM

They promised #ItsAllConnected and in the first season and second season, it pretty much was connected — the show fed into the movies and movie characters (Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Sif) appeared on the show. That changed in the third season, probably because it hampered their ability to tell their own stories, so they decided to just stay out of the way, but also connect in more subtle ways (using magic when Doctor Strange was coming out, multiple references to the Sokovia Accords, etc). It's connected, but more subtly than people thought.


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