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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#71551: Jun 3rd 2017 at 6:37:46 PM

[up][up]

I actually agree with that. Danny seems to be at his best playing off of her.

edited 3rd Jun '17 6:38:15 PM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71552: Jun 3rd 2017 at 6:41:25 PM

You know what I want in one of these movies? Red Ronin. Just for the sheer insane scale.
Sorry, I misread that as Red Sonja. Who is an actual character in the Marvel Universe.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#71553: Jun 3rd 2017 at 6:43:04 PM

There was something super adorable about the takeout scene. Like, it shows the disconnect for Danny living at the highest height and the lowest depth. Like, he knows that takeout is a thing, but the only takeout he's ever experienced is bringing an expensive ass restaurant to him.

My various fanfics.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#71554: Jun 3rd 2017 at 6:44:17 PM

[up][up]Was last I checked, like Conan, ROM, and other departed licenses.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71555: Jun 3rd 2017 at 6:56:47 PM

[up] Look, there was an entire Spider-Man/Red Sonja crossover in 2008. I'm going to believe that even if they don't have the rights anymore, they can still have stories with her.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#71556: Jun 3rd 2017 at 7:05:15 PM

[up]Well...that's one way to have a Conan or Red Sonja movie that people actually like.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#71557: Jun 3rd 2017 at 7:09:32 PM

The actor they got for The Thunderer has the perfect voice. He's awesome.

My various fanfics.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71558: Jun 3rd 2017 at 7:10:38 PM

Reeeeeed Ronin.

Yum!

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#71559: Jun 3rd 2017 at 7:11:44 PM

[up][up]Master Splinter. It was ideal casting.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#71560: Jun 3rd 2017 at 7:12:59 PM

That's perfect.

EDIT: You do not want to know how long I had to talk to my mom about why her question as to why Danny didn't just Iron Fist Madame Gao and kill her made no sense.

Given that this was five seconds after we watched her slap the shit out of him without actually touching him.

"But if he just got the drop on her-"

"Mom, we just saw that he couldn't."

"Yeah but she's so tiny and old. He blew up the doors of a truck!"

edited 3rd Jun '17 9:37:43 PM by SonOfSharknado

My various fanfics.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71561: Jun 4th 2017 at 12:29:08 AM

Episode 6? Well, then it is time for: Taaaake on meeeeeeeee......

One thing for sure the show created the most memorable Karaoke scene ever.

And count me in as liking the interaction between Colleen and Danny. They are cute together in a "oh those wacky teenagers are still figuring out how romance works" kind of way.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#71562: Jun 4th 2017 at 1:01:42 AM

Keep in mind that this is a woman who was baffled by the idea that the Winter Soldier was a villain. After we saw the first trailer on TV and I explained to her that the WS was a bad guy, she turned to me, dead-serious, and said

"But if he's a soldier, that means he took an oath!"

My various fanfics.
kaalban Schrodinger's Human from everywhere and nowhere Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Schrodinger's Human
#71564: Jun 4th 2017 at 2:34:47 AM

I wonder if there's an alternate universe, where humans consider brainwashing as an oath. And the one where people are convinced that ice-creams are potential terrorists.

[up] Well, it's not the soldiers who are evil (mostly). It's the goddamn politicians (...maybe). I mean, there were very few (if none), where it's the ax-crazy soldiers starting wars. Politicians (kings, emperors, Spaghetti monster, whatever) start it.

edited 4th Jun '17 2:37:03 AM by kaalban

Everything that lives is designed to end.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71565: Jun 4th 2017 at 4:24:15 AM

The Winter Soldier isn't a villain. He is a weapon. And underneath said weapon is poor Bucky trying to get out.

Still want the Falcon and Bucky road trip movie.....

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71567: Jun 4th 2017 at 8:17:41 AM

Well, it's not the soldiers who are evil (mostly). It's the goddamn politicians (...maybe). I mean, there were very few (if none), where it's the ax-crazy soldiers starting wars. Politicians (kings, emperors, Spaghetti monster, whatever) start it.

You're correct that a war is the fault of the ruler who declares it and not the soldier who fights it. Notably, however, the soldiers themselves can be evil. There is potential for horrific crimes all the way down the chain of command, from the ruler who tells his men to go invade this poor country to the frustrated grunt who hasn't seen a woman in six months and decides, well, these brown folks they're conquering aren't really people, right? Good chance to do something about that.

War crimes can be committed at every level, and by everyone involved.

edited 4th Jun '17 8:18:56 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#71568: Jun 4th 2017 at 8:32:54 AM

That depends on whether you're dealing with a volunteer army or a conscripted army. If someone chooses to join the military, then I'd say they're still responsible if their leaders order them to fight an unjust war, since they knew that could happen when they joined up. That's the whole reason why armies are supposed to try to avoid killing civilians, since they didn't make any such choice.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71569: Jun 4th 2017 at 8:38:36 AM

Not necessarily. People join the military for a wide variety of reasons and most of them have no input on the politics of engaging a war. Disinformation also runs rampant in many countries, which can influence people's reasons for agreeing to join up in wartime. Not to mention, enlistment has a term limit and regimes can change in that time.

Like, someone who joined the military under Obama would still be expected to fight a war Trump starts. You don't get to quit when election season comes around if you don't like who won. You still have to serve your term.

Now, the counterpoint to that is the requirement to refuse an unjust order. At least in the U.S., if your leadership asks you to commit a war crime, you are obligated both legally and morally to refuse. So while the soldiers would not be responsible if, say, Trump decides to invade Canada, they would be held equally responsible if they followed an order to genocidally purge Quebec.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#71570: Jun 4th 2017 at 9:08:48 AM

Not to mention, enlistment has a term limit and regimes can change in that time.

Like, someone who joined the military under Obama would still be expected to fight a war Trump starts. You don't get to quit when election season comes around if you don't like who won. You still have to serve your term.

That was sort of my point. When you join the military, you're not given any guarantee about what wars you'll be called on to fight or how they'll be fought. You know that you very well could be called upon to fight in an unjust war, and by enlisting you've given up your ability to refuse. If you willingly sign away your ability to make moral decisions to someone else, then I'd say you're responsible for the decisions they make on your behalf.

To bring it back around to Bucky, he's not responsible for his actions as the Winter Soldier because he was brainwashed against his will. But if he had willingly allowed Hydra to brainwash him into a mind-controlled assassin, then he would be responsible for everything he did as the Winter Soldier; he may not have been in control of himself at the time, but it would have been his choice to give up that control to a shady and untrustworthy organization in the first place.

edited 4th Jun '17 9:10:10 AM by RavenWilder

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71571: Jun 4th 2017 at 9:12:00 AM

But the comparison here would be more along the lines of if he'd agreed to be part of a super-soldier program for S.H.I.E.L.D., and subsequently wound up as a brainwashed assassin for Hydra because they were secretly inside of S.H.I.E.L.D. The organization wasn't shady and untrustworthy when he signed on. It just had strings attached that he didn't know about.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#71572: Jun 4th 2017 at 9:34:59 AM

Even without knowing about the Hydra infiltration, S.H.I.E.L.D. was always shady.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#71573: Jun 4th 2017 at 10:40:48 AM

I think there is limit, sure war is hell and at but is not a inevitable thing dosent it? "sign here so you can rape and shoot everyone! next step is a good PTDS!" someone joing hydra for reason is one thing, sign for a awfull program is another.

Swan: sure bucky is a weapon but that dosent erase the deeds he done in the past as he is guilty for it, funny thing is Bucky look more responsable than both Steve and Tony in the movie.

if anything, he was the real protagonist here.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71574: Jun 4th 2017 at 6:01:24 PM

[up] Sure, but it isn't really his fault and he is NOT a villain. Hydra is the villain of The Winter Soldier, not him.

kaalban Schrodinger's Human from everywhere and nowhere Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Schrodinger's Human
#71575: Jun 4th 2017 at 6:43:39 PM

About war... I am aware that soldiers can be evil. To be honest, I think there are very few saints in war.

About Bucky, I highly doubt that Bucky willingly gave control to Hydra. As far as I'm aware, Zola did the brainwashing before "Hydra is Shield" plot started. Besides that, it's natural for a person like Barnes to feel guilty after what happened.

Everything that lives is designed to end.

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