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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#71426: Jun 2nd 2017 at 1:11:06 PM

-

edited 2nd Jun '17 1:11:20 PM by Draghinazzo

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#71427: Jun 2nd 2017 at 1:12:17 PM

Stane is actually kind of a Self-Disposing Villain. Deleted scenes and alternate takes clarify that the EMP blast just fried his systems and knocked him out (same as Tony), he died because he fell on the Arc reactor (which subsequently exploded). So Tony was at best indirectly responsible for an accidental death.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71428: Jun 2nd 2017 at 1:38:38 PM

I can give the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't actually know it would kill him and was just trying to shut down the armor. As far as we know, he only actually died because he fell through the ceiling with his cockpit exposed.

edited 2nd Jun '17 1:39:55 PM by comicwriter

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#71429: Jun 2nd 2017 at 1:50:22 PM

Killing Ultron's bodies is a gray area because there is only one consciousness between them. And as remarked, Vision is the one that put Ultron down although not from lack of trying by everyone else.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71430: Jun 2nd 2017 at 1:54:06 PM

Just want to jump in and say that Tony absolutely had a kill count in Iron Man 3. He directly kills Brandt and Savin, plus tons of AIM mooks in his escape and then tons of Extremis soldiers in the big finale. They're all justified, of course, but he had a higher kill count in that film than he did in Iron Man 1. Though it is rather funny that he never directly killed any of his Big Bads; Pepper killed Stane and Killian, and Vanko killed Vanko.

As for Ant-Man, his only direct kill is Cross, but he and Luis did leave a few of Cross's unconscious mooks in the building when it imploded (the only guy Luis rescues is that security guard who was just doing his job), so that counts as a few kills.

And now for Punisher; where Punisher draws the line between "must kill" and "meh" varies from media to media, but MCU Punisher seems to specifically only hunt killers, mobsters, and other large game; he was uncomfortable around the obviously-crooked pawn shop owner but willing to let him be, until he revealed his involvement in child pornography. Petty criminals such as pickpockets probably get a pass from him.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#71431: Jun 2nd 2017 at 1:57:24 PM

Winston Duke will be in Infinity War.

There was also a casting call looking for a stand-in for one of the Dora Milaje, and while less conclusive, someone pointed out the stuntwoman for the actress who plays Princess Shuri is also listed in the Infinity War cast.

I guess at least some of the film will take place in Wakanda.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71432: Jun 2nd 2017 at 2:14:23 PM

Which is the problem with the punisher as protagonist...I mean, Matt is way too ready to torture people, but he does have a strict no-kill rule (though he does throw people off roofs...honestly, for a show who spends that much time on Matt's hang-ups he is way too comfortable with being less than careful when ninjas are involved), Jessica does kill Killgrave but she spends a whole season trying to find another way to take him down, Luke only destroys weapons and the occasional bone and even Danny, despite all his anger issues, refrains from killing in the end. And this is a good thing. Vigilantes are in itself a grey area, but if they are out there and play executioner, they have definitely crossed a line.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#71433: Jun 2nd 2017 at 2:18:12 PM

Don't know about anyone else, but I'm not gonna worry about negative reception to the Punisher show. If it turns out a low quality piece of television, then I will criticize the shit out of it. Just not appealing to others isn't a concern of mine.

edited 2nd Jun '17 2:22:18 PM by VeryMelon

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71434: Jun 2nd 2017 at 2:22:47 PM

The show isn't even out yet.

I'm not worried, though. Even the weaker shows, like Daredevil S2, have always at least been entertaining to me, so even if it's not very good in terms of production values I'll probably still enjoy it. I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to action shows.

Plus they're good time-wasters if you need SOMETHING to binge-watch on the weekend. tongue

edited 2nd Jun '17 2:23:47 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71435: Jun 2nd 2017 at 2:23:05 PM

John Byrne's run on Superman is also long and influential.
Yes and he was larger than life in that, too. See: Dan Jurgens.

Diana wasn't larger than life under Perez being written as needing to grow out of her naivety.
Have you read the Perez stuff? Hell yeah, she was written larger than life.

Even Rucka's version grew more humanised over time.
Being humanized doesn't mean they aren't larger than life. Sure, they become more humanized, but they are also characters who are over the top in pretty much every action they do. Batman isn't just a detective, he's the world's greatest detective. Superman isn't simply a Flying Brick, he's the paragon of truth, justice, and the American Way. These pretty clearly set them apart from other characters, characters who began as human.

edited 2nd Jun '17 2:23:20 PM by alliterator

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#71436: Jun 2nd 2017 at 3:28:12 PM

Regarding the discussion on the ethics of killing, I just wanted to note that more often than not, killing is not a choice. The use of violence is a choice, but the distinction between wounding and killing a person can be very blurry. Like, everyone knows that if you don't want to kill someone, you shoot out their kneecaps, right? That can f*cking kill people.

A lot of media is able to dance around the issue and enforce heroic No-Kill Codes by making killing into a sort of toggle. Like, if you do enough damage to a person, they reach 0 HP and are incapacitated, whereupon a "Kill This F*cker? Y/N" window appears and you get to choose the consequence of your violence.

This is basically the only reason why writers are able to claim characters like Batman or Superman have never killed anyone; they might smash a non-powered person's skull through a brick wall at 500 MPH and then slam a schoolbus down on top of him, but they never hit that toggle, so the person's just unconscious.

Consequentially, a lot of the blowback against "Heroes never kill" isn't even about morality, but about suspension of disbelief. If you're asking me to believe that every single time Batman has ever taken out a vehicle in motion, its occupants all were able to eject to safety, the vehicle's course never carried it into anyone, and anyone still inside the now totalled vehicle was safely knocked out, that gets a little bit harder to swallow each time he does it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#71437: Jun 2nd 2017 at 3:40:52 PM

[up][up]Maybe is just me but what the hell mean larger than life to you? because strange can easly fit that: he is not just a magician, he is the SORCER SUPREME! and being arrogant can be a larger than life trait, you call it hubris which it fix pretty damn well.

Gaon: is not just that, but that hero already goes into colateral damage and brutal destruction which make punisher reputation just hollow.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71438: Jun 2nd 2017 at 3:43:48 PM

Far as I'm aware, there is no 'safe place' to shoot someone. Long as the bullet actually hits, any shot could potentially be fatal, regardless of where it is on the body.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71439: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:08:19 PM

I don't think anyone would die from being shot in the earlobe.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71440: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:11:51 PM

That's not what was meant. The earlobe thing is actually a perfect example, though, because the whole problem is hitting what you aim for. Having a chunk taken out of your ear won't kill you, but if that same shot were to miss by only a few inches (or, realistically, much less), it definitely might.

edited 2nd Jun '17 4:22:14 PM by Unsung

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#71441: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:16:37 PM

Shock, blood loss, hearing loss, possible irreparable damage to the inner ear, etc.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71442: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:37:00 PM

Of those, only shock and blood loss are fatal, and the earlobe isn't a vital enough point to cause shock or blood loss if damaged. Even a hemophiliac wouldn't lose enough blood to go into shock from that.

edited 2nd Jun '17 4:37:44 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71443: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:39:35 PM

If you can reliably hit a moving target in the ear without taking out a chunk of their face along with it, I've got a friend in the CIA who'd like a word with you.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#71444: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:40:41 PM

Oh, I know the improbability of the shot.

I was just countering the point that "any" spot on the body can be a fatal shot.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#71445: Jun 2nd 2017 at 4:42:33 PM

The point is that you can't really predict whether or not you'll hit what you're aiming for in a nonlethal way, not that there are major arteries in the pinky toe, I'd say.

edited 2nd Jun '17 4:46:05 PM by Unsung

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#71446: Jun 2nd 2017 at 5:04:25 PM

Well, provided that the bullet doesn't hit any major blood vessel, the best place to get shot at is actually the liver. Mainly because a bullet can do a lot of damage so your bones and muscles, but the liver is pretty good in recovering itself. Most people who die from shots in the liver do so because of infection. (And I blame Sherlock for actually knowing stuff like this).

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#71447: Jun 2nd 2017 at 5:07:46 PM

When my brother was shot, his surgeon said he was shot in the "best" place: the narrow area between the stomach and the intestine. The only way you die through it is via sheer bloodloss which would take some time. The surgery to fix it is, according to the surgeon, merely reshaping and reconnecting the stomach and intestine. Which is a long but relatively simple operation.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#71449: Jun 2nd 2017 at 7:47:54 PM

Stane is actually kind of a Self-Disposing Villain. Deleted scenes and alternate takes clarify that the EMP blast just fried his systems and knocked him out (same as Tony), he died because he fell on the Arc reactor (which subsequently exploded). So Tony was at best indirectly responsible for an accidental death.

"I shot him, but it wasn't fatal! It was the fall that killed him" isn't great justification for it not being a kill, really. Especially since Tony was well aware that the exploding reactor could be fatal (as he accepted the risk of his own death) beforehand.

edited 2nd Jun '17 7:48:01 PM by KnownUnknown

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#71450: Jun 2nd 2017 at 7:48:29 PM

[up] Nobody shot Stane, though. They set off an EMP that knocked both his and Tony's suits.


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