Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
So I'm watching the first episode of Iron Fist. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm white, but I think it's okay.
My various fanfics.Most fan opinion I've seen still leans towards negative with small bits of positive reactions to certain things (Harold Meachum, Ward's entire arc, Colleen Wing, the small appearances Claire and Hogarth make, and of course Madame friggin' Gao). I still hate it so much, though I admire the good things about it because they were really fucking good stuff put in a really fucking bad show.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?The biggest problem with Iron Fist is the pacing of the first few episodes, but if you're enjoying them anyway then there shouldn't be any issue. It only gets better from there.
If you genuinely like it, then just kick back and enjoy the show instead of worrying about the reviews or anything.
Me, personally, I wouldn't put it on the same level as Daredevil S1 (That still stands as the best product the MCU has made, in my opinion), but I liked it about as much as I liked the other shows.
edited 28th May '17 7:17:52 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!edited 28th May '17 7:12:07 PM by alliterator
I have a lot of feelings on why Jimmy Olsen's death in Bv S was two tons of donkey shit, most of which have already been expressed by other tropers in previous pages. The only thing of note I have to add is comparatively simple, but something I consider to be worth saying: if the only reason you have for a creative decision is shock value, then don't fucking do it!
Okay, that's probably oversimplifying things. What I mean is that the shock moment should have more of a point. Especially in the case of killing off characters. Since you're depriving audiences of further stories that could be told with that character, you'd better have a really good reason for killing them off, and shock is a very fleeting emotion that doesn't add much in the grand scheme of things.In short...
Me: I suppose. So what else you got?
Director: Uh... just that, I guess.
Me: Then what's the point?
edited 28th May '17 7:32:05 PM by MapleSamurai
![]()
Or, to use a previous example: Agent Coulson. He had three previous movie appearances before dying and he had a lot of small character development moments in The Avengers before he died. And even then he was only mostly dead and came back for Agents of SHIELD. Or, to use a more recent example: SUPER DUPER SPOILERS FOLKS Yondu in Guardians vol 2, whose death was a culmination of two movies worth of character development and was still shocking.
edited 28th May '17 7:37:51 PM by alliterator
![]()
Just replace "beloved character" with "rando no one gives a donkey's left testicle about" in the first line, and you get the same sentiment. My point still stands that shock value moments should have some point other than shock value or else they're completely worthless.
Pretty much my point.
edited 28th May '17 7:44:01 PM by MapleSamurai
![]()
![]()
That's not really the opposite, is it? That's kind of the same complaint: Slipknot has no character development so nobody cares about his death. Though I think the actual complaint about Slipknot is that his death is so obvious that it loses any sense of suspense or excitement.
The problem isn't killing off named characters, it's with not making those characters' deaths matter. If Jimmy had been a well-developed character the audience sympathized with and who Superman and his supporting cast knew and cared about, and then he died, that would have been a shock. It still might have been handled well or poorly, but it definitely would have been a shock. Naming characters James Olsen and Mercy Graves only to kill them off without them having done anything just seems like a pointless waste. There's no in-universe reason to care about them, so it just seems like there's no out-of-universe reason for them to be used.
edited 28th May '17 7:41:51 PM by Unsung
Trying to compare Maria Stark to Jimmy Olsen is a terrible example, because we already know she died in the same "accident" as Howard long before we actually see how it happened. So it was providing proper context to a background detail. No Take That! found there. Whereas Jimmy was introduced solely so he could die, and it was really unnecessary to go out of one's way to do so.
![]()
Uhm, when did Martha Wayne provide motivation for the final battle in Bv S? Nobody was fighting because of her. She only provided the most amazingly fucking stupid excuse to end a fight I've ever seen in cinema.
God, I hate the "Save Martha!" thing. I HATE IT.
Also, since the very first MCU movie, Maria Stark was already dead. She was a plot device. If anything, her character was expanded by giving more background and context to her death. So, yeah, she wasn't a wasted character.
@Iron Fist being bad:
I don't think Iron Fist is bad. Yes, Danny is an imbecile now and again, but I reasoned that, well, he kind of never grew up in the context he's now involved with. Of course he's incompetent and behaves like an idiot.
What other complaint do people really have, other than the shitty editing?
edited 29th May '17 1:02:36 AM by ExplosiveLion
That comes across as a non-sequitur since the poster in question was only referring to Martha Wayne's role as "character who only really exists to die in the hero's backstory to motivate the hero". The Bv S scene doesn't have much bearing on that.
That's literally wrong.
If he means that both died to provide motivation in the final battle, then no, Martha didn't. Her death doesn't impact Superman and Batman's fight, at all.
And if he means that both died to provide motivation, period, then that's also wrong, since Tony didn't became Iron-Man because of her mother's death, but to a set of completely unrelated circumstances.
And they have no reason to given they make up a very small minority of the audience.
That anyone could die?
What development?
[[quoteblock]]And now you are just moving goalposts.
No. I'm pointing out the different circumstances.
A very small part.
Who cares indeed. Given how comic book fans are infamous for being damn near impossible to please, I really do not blame Snyder fro just doing his own thing and thinking more about the people who don't know or care about Jimmy aka most of the audience.
You and I have very different experiences of fandom.
And when did I ever do that?

There's also the other side of the complaint: The deaths of Olsen and Mercy were entirely unrelated to their characters. You could have replaced them with "Reporter #3" and "Butler #1" and it wouldn't have made a difference.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."